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[Stavros]

Right then this is a controversial subject that could well effect boat clubs.Right as a member of a local motor club we as a club have had to appoint a child protection officer this is due to the fact that as a club who has junior members who in their duties as a marshal will be come into contact with adults who they don't know etc.What I am getting at is, do we as boat clubs have to do the same as when we organise open days etc and the kids have their photo's taken etc are we leaving ourselves open to the undesirables out there to pray omn the innocent.
This is a serious matter and should not be taken lightly.

Stavros

[Colin Bishop]

Stavros, you are quite right to be careful in this area. This subject has come up before see: http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2160.0

Unfortunately in this politically correct age common sense seems to have gone out of the window and you are presumed potentially guilty.

At the Mayhem weekend I took photos of one of our junior members, one of which was published in the Model Boats writeup.However, I did take care to get prior permission from both the junior concerned and the father.

These days, the safest thing is to ensure that the parent or guardian is present and is happy with anything you do.  Getting it in writing is probably OTT but a witness would be useful. It's all a bit sad really.

[chingdevil]

Hi Stavros

When I taught children diving the Child Protection Act came into force which meant I could not video my divers as they came off the boards in case I filmed a child not in my club and I would not have had the parent permission to do that. I would suggest you contact your local council as they are going to have a person who knows all about this, because they have to have.

Brian

[dougal99]

I believe the MPBA have a section on their website which gives information and some guidance on this matter.

[slewis]

Stavros you may want to have a look here (ok its from a plane site) It contains details set up by the BMFA as regards safe conduct with children and vulnerable adults .
There is also a section , if you hunt around long enough , on CRB checks (Criminal Record Bureau ) So any club or official organisation can acertain that the people who apply are clear of any activity that may be considered a risk to the parties mentioned above .

Personally I think that the world has gone mad and the fact that these things need doing makes me sick to my stomach !

Oh yes the link .....
http://www.bmfa.org/childprotection/index.html

Shane (HTH) 

[Marks Model Bits]

As me and my wife are both registered foster carers we are well aware of the regs regarding child protection, we have both undergone enhanced CRB checks and checks with the NSPCC but all this proves is we have no criminal record or have not been caught doing anything untoward!!!!! ( heaven forbid!!!)
We have come across pictures taken in all innocence of children placed in our care at car shows we have all attended and they were posted on the club websites, we had to ask for them to be removed because if the pics were seen by any of the children's relatives we could have been in serious trouble (even prosecuted in court!!!!) certainly suspended anyway.
It does seem like it's the "nanny state" gone mad but rules are rules and the consequences of not following them cannot be over-estimated.

How many junior members are down the lake without their parent/s anyway, I certainly would not let Hannah go to the lake on her own but I am quite happy to let her wander about as long as I can still see (or hear her).
Best advice is DON'T put yourself in ANY situation that could be mis-interpreted by any by-standers.

Mark.

[slewis]

good advice Mark 

[gingyer]

Hi guy's
I too work with a youth organisation at present
and the stuff we have to do to take them away on an activity makes
a lot of people think why they bother.
2 bits of advice I would give to anyone working with children

1) They are not your own so what you may think is OK may
not be OK with their parents, so seek the parent permission at all times and
if possible get it in writing. A good way for taking pictures is add a  box in the clubs
application form to say that pictures may appear in the media you should really
include this for adults as well as they may accuse you of invasion of privacy and
have them tick yes or no

2) If a child comes to you with a problem don't deal with it (you are not trained) refer to an appropriate
person (parent or police) and if you are dealing with a child (IE showing them how to build a boat)
never be alone get someone else so it should be at least 3 in the room never a 1 to 1
situation.

I know I have went but with child protection
you can never let your guard down

Colin

[alan colson]

Just another thing that I think should be pointed out is this, my wife does youth work and occasionally I go along and assist, I have been crb checked but this only covers me for this activity. If I wish to do anything at the boat club with juniors I would have to be crb checked again. My daughter has worked in a school, with guides, a playgroup and church youth group, she has been crb checked 4 times now.
Think long and hard before you get involved these days, it's best to avoid trouble.
Alan

[bobdoc]

I think I'll have to stop taking photos at any event where the general public are present: adults or children.

Seems maybe I should stop taking phtographs at all in case a member of the public of indeterminate age is in a distant dingy, climbiing a hill, part of a football crowd (in the background of a fabulous action shot of "St Keegan").

Get real: thousands of CCTV images of us are taken daily: who prosecutes them: after all, that's to "protect the public"

PC, IDIOCY or WHAT

..... and yet my wife and I had a child fostered on us by social services for 10 months with no checks simply because we rescued her for her "dead drunk" mother at 01:00 am one day - one rule for us and another for the public services?

Democracy = freedomn with resonsiibilties? Bo!!ocks

Sorry, but my professional life is rendered horrible by this nonsesne

Bobdoc (note the doc)

[wombat]

I think that if you are working with minors, then if you are club with legal status you should have a child protection policy in place if only for your own protection. The child protection officer is a nominated menmber of the club responsible for implementing the policy. THe reason you want the policy and the officer is to ensure that in the event of a compliant you can prove that the club, its members and officials have not been negligent.

The policy can be pretty simple - basically, no-one to be alone with children, always get approval from parents in writing if they will not be present etc etc.

As regards photos, the watchword is traceability - does the photo and the caption give enough information to identify and locate the child? If it does, then don't put it in the public domain. For instance a picture on the website of "Kirsty Jones our junior member from Smith Street, Bogcaster recievieng her prize" is not a good idea. A picture of " Kirsty winning a prize" or "A junior member recieving her prize" should be OK as it doesn;t give too many clues as to the identiy. If there is anything to identify the child or link them with a specific organisation who will be at a specific place at a spcific time always get the parents permission before putting up the picture and make sure the name is not given in such a way it can identify the child (i.e. if there are two or three kids leave it open on the caption which one is which). A child will trust an adult who knows theri name that little bit more than someone who doesn't

It is anbout being able to demonstrate that you have shown due diligence in ensiuring that there is no possibility of any children being abused  or groomed for abuse while they are in your care, or that your actions can have been a contributing influence. Don't get paranoid but do be cautious. Remember this poicy should streach further to vulnerable adults as well.

As good starting point is to talk to the local vicar, priest or other church minister as they will have a policy in place (and if they don't get straight onto the Dioscese, because they bloody well should have) and should be willing to share it. If anyone wants it, I think we might have got one lying around - or I can lay my hands on one reasonably quickly.

Wom

[djrobbo]

 Hi guys...I am a caretaker, maintenance engineer for a local infants school so have been c r b checked ,as i would have expected and quite rightly so, but this throws up another potential problem with our clubs..If there are small kids in the club should all members be c r b checked.....????    its a sad world aint it !

                         regards    bob.

[BB STE]

Hello there all
 This is a serious subject and I don't want to sound as though the MPBA are disconnecting themselves from it but

PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THE DOCUMENTATION THAT WAS ON THE MPBA WEBSITE IS IN THE PROCESS OF BEING UP DATED AND IS THEREFORE NOT AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOADING

I am really sorry about this but if you do have any other concerns please feel free to send me a personal message and I will do my best to answer any of your questions.

yours Kathy.x (MPBA GEN SEC).

[bigH]

   Since retirement some yrs ago I have been a local correspondent for our local paper, this often entails my interviewing children and parents together and singly.
   never once was I asked to undergo a police check and when photos were taken to accompany the story and subsequently printed the names were matched to the
   person but only the area where they lived.   Photos of ALL School children and the name of the school is regularly printed and the schools look forward to this yet ban     parents from videoing or photoing the kiddies Xmas play.   I know of a number of PC officers of the authorities who have no children of their own and no experience of how to look after them telling good mothers at a PTA meeting that they should be with their children 24/7 just to be sure and they should not let them go or speak to ANYONE that has not been approved.   Being a great great grandfather with umpteen kin I and my wife am as careful as anyone to protect them all and have taught their mums and dads the same,  BUT COMMON SENSE MUST PREVAIL or we will become a society of fear and vigilantes.    I do not pretend that my age and children give me any special knowledge or credit but it does help to sort the chaff from the wheat.

[Bee]

Not yet mentioned is that they are 'children' up to 18 yrs old now. (they don't like that).
So you can't talk to that 'vulnerable' 17 yr old mother of 2 by the lakeside even though she drives a 150mph sports car and is actually in the army as a machine gunner.

[Colin Bishop]

Relevant item on BBC Scotland today which reinforces what's been said here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7045544.stm

[sheerline]

Whilst sailing my sub at the pond one sunny day a few weeks back, a young family parked themselves on the grass nearby and their young son, around 4 years of age was fascinated with my boat. He was so intrigued by the whole submarine experience, I felt inclined to talk to the young lad and actually let him have a go at driving. This young fellow was enthralled and whilst I held the tx for him as he waggled the sticks, I couldn't help thinking that this lad would remember this experienc and perhaps in the distant future, we might have another modeller to add to the diminishing list.

Whilst this was going on, I was suddenly struck by the the horrific thought that someone somewhere may be viewing this coming together of great minds with a degree of suspicion. I suddenly felt like some kind of criminal and that I had possibly broken some  law for which I might be arrested or at worst, assaulted. I terminated our boating experience as delicately as possible and immediately sought out the parents to assure them I was an ok bloke and only had their sons interest at heart.
They were absolutely ok about it and were happy that someone had taken the time and trouble to talk to the lad and even let him have a go. They even said that they wished more people were like this as the kids are missing out on some wonderful experiences. We then got into this discussion about the PC brigade and the mad lefties wrecking our world and finally came to the conclusion that overprotection is damaging more children by depriving them of their childhood than those who were damaged by the deviants within our society.
I know this is a very difficult and controversial subject but on balance, I would say the lefties are making children view  adults with suspicion and making  adults avoid children thus driving yet another wedge through the very heart of society.
I don't think there is a larger percentage of deviants per sqare inch now than there was ,say back in the 60s, it's just that it is reported more and we are being continually made aware of it.
My answer to it is rather crude and brutal: dump this pc crap, save the kids and shoot the bloody deviants!
     

[gingyer]

Just read sheerline's comments
and could not agree more.
People are letting the scum of the earth run away with murder and the result
is that people that are willing to give up there time to help others are left feeling that
people will view them as deviants and are to scared to help for fear of accusations being made.

On a similar topic: it was recently highlighted to the organisation (CAN NOT NAME FOR SAFETY) that I help with
that under Health and Safety legislation and due to some of the activities being more high risk than other
organisations I can kill, injure or loose 10% of those in my charge before alarm bells at the HSE sound.
it makes you think  :-\

[Bartapuss]

Sadly due to the so called "care in the cummunity" its sign of times.

[Peewee]

After reading the comments from sheerline I remembered back to when I was 9.  My father had built me a model RC boat for my birthday but had suddenly died a month later.  Here I was with a model boat and no idea what to do with it.   That summer the local village held a charity auction where people were auctioning their time and skill.
One gentleman was from the Moorhen Model boat club and he was giving his time, my mother bid and needless to say won.  I was then dropped around his house one evening on my own and boat in tow.   To this day I still remember this and am still a model boat nut 25 years later
This said could we do this in this day an age, probably not.  Yet this was nothing more than a kind gesture on his part.
Ian

[Circlip]

      Unfortunately all the points put forward by the members of this site are valid about PC gone mad, but
      the truth is, at the end of the day, the only people to blame for the present situation is ourselves.
      The deterioration of our 'society' is due to the acceptance of standards of behavior that our parents
      would not have accepted -  by US.
        We silvers,(and shiney's) are regularly classed as grumpy old g*ts for our 'outspoken' comments of
       'It wasn't like this in our young days', but if we could ask our parents i'll bet that they would tut at
        their kids behavior. The trouble is our complacency is fuelled by loony legislation which we know darned
        well is stupid, but we accept it blindly - 'Well there's nothing we can do about it'. There is, But unfortunatly
        it means getting off out butts and getting the local councillors that WE have elected (or not) by the
        throat and saying No More!  They are there to serve Us, not Visa Versa

[Bridkid]

Hmmm, I hear what you are all saying and agree that the world has gone mad. Having said that, since the inception of our club in the 70's we have always had a rule that any junior member (up to age 18) MUST be accompanied by a responsible adult at all times. Not sure if this let's us off the hook with regard to our 'responsibilities' but that's the way it is.
Good grief, we used to hang round the cinema when we were young and wanting to get in to see an 'A' certificate film, then just asked the first person we saw (usually a bloke on his own) if they would 'get us in' and when they said yes as they inevitably did, we gave them our money and followed them in. Can you imagime that happenning these days? I think not!
Cheers,
Ian
 

[Bryan Young]

Hmmm, I hear what you are all saying and agree that the world has gone mad. Having said that, since the inception of our club in the 70's we have always had a rule that any junior member (up to age 18) MUST be accompanied by a responsible adult at all times. Not sure if this let's us off the hook with regard to our 'responsibilities' but that's the way it is.
Good grief, we used to hang round the cinema when we were young and wanting to get in to see an 'A' certificate film, then just asked the first person we saw (usually a bloke on his own) if they would 'get us in' and when they said yes as they inevitably did, we gave them our money and followed them in. Can you imagime that happenning these days? I think not!
Cheers,
Ian
 

I think that any sensible club has a similar policy. Unfortunately, children seem to have this magical ability to escape parental control. My club has 3 "rooms"...one totally divorced from the other 2. This 3rd room is subdivided with a heavy door. (Makes 4 rooms when shut). It is not unusual for a club member to be in the 4th room getting a boat out of a locker to be suddenly confronted by a youngster wanting to know what was happening. All in innocence. But a quandary for the adult nowadays....does a grown man yell "help" when this happens? Personally I do not know the answer to this. If we are all to be branded as "suspicious" then how on earth can we even begin to teach youngsters about the "hobby"? I really cannot put this down to a lack of parental control. A 10 year-old now has as much street-savvy as most of us on this forum had as 20 year olds....and the parents will never catch up on this. A sad state of affairs.

[sheerline]

I have to say, reading through the original post and talking to friends who belong to flying clubs has been very revealing. I didn't know things had become this bad. Some free society this has turned out to be, we can't even mix with other members of our own species without some form of law or control being excersised. The politicians have tweaked, tinkered and fine tuned our civilisation to a point where it is no longer really civilised. We entrusted them with the well being of our county and they broke it, worst of all we let them.
 The lunatics are running the asylum!

[Circlip]

           Yes Brian, your last piece got it right, WE LET THEM. I think all contact with the general public should
            be sanctioned with an ADULT PROTECTION OFFICER! Yes the little darlings do seem to be able to evade
            parental control, but how many of us have been warned off telling little johny not to touch, the word NO
            seems to be an alien llanguage to lots of todays kids. Unfortunately todays society seems to be geared
            towards childrens WANTS not needs,and the little s*ds know that even A look can warrent A visit to the
            european court of human rights, quite rightly one is not allowed to 'Beat' ones kids but you can't even
            Chastise them any more. In todays society the wife an I would be hung drawn and quartered for the way
            we brought ours up, but two Naval officers and A tax inspector can't be bad, OK 2 out of 3.