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Author Topic: HMS Prince of Wales breakdown  (Read 54592 times)

ScottW

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #75 on: October 01, 2022, 07:00:59 am »

A Frigate [nor a Destroyer] are not a Capital ship, which the accepted definition is a Battle Ship or an Aircraft Carrier
As it happens, I am aware of that. While he didn't have a duty station on a Frigate, Dad graduated from Destroyer School in Newport, Rhode Island, in 1969 or 70.
And was then on USS Ingraham, DD-694, with OHP class frigate, FFG-61 being the next ship to carry USS Ingraham name and being last of the OHP class to be built.
FFG-61 was eventually sunk as a target just last year, 2021.
Dad's USS Ingraham, DD-694 was likewise sunk as a target about a decade previously after its retirement from the Greek Navy.

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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #76 on: October 01, 2022, 07:43:41 am »

The F-35B doesn't have a lift engine to lug around, it only has one engine, and that works for lift and forward thrust via its moveable nozzles. The bit that doesn't do anything during normal flight is the lift fan and clutch that are between the engine and the cockpit.


I installed the monster welding machine at Rolls Royce which makes the lift fan itself, so I know what I'm talking about here.....  :-)


I’m not denying that the name I used is different but unfortunately it’s still a large lump to carry around with associated systems to support it compared to other variants and aircraft regardless if it’s called an engine or a fan. Whilst its an impressive bit of engineering it isn’t used for 99% of the time.
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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #77 on: October 01, 2022, 04:34:31 pm »

Main reason I spoke of the catapult is that a fixed wing plane such as a F35A can carry more weapons in weight than the F35B can, yes as a stealth plane it is supposed to target and fire a missile at the incoming plane at a considerable distance without being seen on radar. But if the missiles fail then it has to dogfight which I believe is the F22 's fortieth, talking of the 22, believe the USA is now actively going to supersede them soon with next generation fighters, so perhaps the MoD may well be able to buy some 22's in the not-too-distant future?
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John W E

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #78 on: October 01, 2022, 05:03:06 pm »

hi


I am posting a link which may be of interest to some.   I found it very interesting to read - as I was searching the web for Sea Trials.   This was because I do know the Ark Royal which was built on the Tyne did sea trials where she ran on one shaft and was made to steer a straight course.  This was repeated on the other shaft over the measured mile.  So, no doubt the new aircraft carriers would have to do the same - I therefore cannot see any problem with HMS Prince of Wales doing a journey to Rosyth on one shaft.  If the powers to be had the foresight to keep the docks on the Tyne instead of building houses on the empty docks - Prince of Wales could have nicely fitted into one or two docks to that were there on the Tyne. 


John
Sea trial - Wikipedia

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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #79 on: October 01, 2022, 05:39:25 pm »

The old Invincible did a lot of single shaft running during her time due to faulty gearbox's .
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #80 on: October 01, 2022, 05:52:24 pm »

As John says, twin screw ships can navigate perfectly well on one screw. There is a bit of history to this as in the late 19th Century, steamers initially carried sail as a precaution against the single screw falling off. In fact some vessels carried spare screws aboard well into the 20th Century. And even the Queen Mary 2 has a set of spare propeller blades for her propulsion pods mounted like artworks forward of the bridge - they are known as 'The Commodore's Cufflinks'. (photo below)

Once ships had two screws, the fallback of a sailing rig could be dispensed with.

The Brittany Ferries vessels across the Western Channel frequently travel with just one screw operating if they are not in a hurry which is the case when they slow down to arrive at the destination port at a civilised hour.

Getting back to the PoW, she would have initially been destored at Portsmouth and the stuff they needed for her mission removed. The ship is based at Portsmouth so there is no  need to move her to Rosyth until the bits and bobs needed to make her port shaft operational again are ready to be installed. I doubt if they are 'off the shelf' items.

Colin
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Baldrick

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #81 on: October 01, 2022, 09:34:38 pm »

Quote
The Brittany Ferries vessels across the Western Channel frequently travel w[/size][/font]ith just one screw operating if they are not in a hurry which is the case when they slow down to arrive at the destination port at a civilised hour .
[/size]

   As I well remember , A late booking with no accommodation on offer was a pain. The prospect of 8 hours trying to get some rest on the floor in the corner of a lower deck corridor was an experience not to be repeated.  Fortunately after a few hours a Brittany Ferries steward took pity on us and ushered us into a vacant cabin .
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #82 on: October 04, 2022, 11:55:44 am »

HMS PoW departure to Rosyth has apparently been delayed as the damaged propeller could not be removed in time. Obviously, it it can't rotate then it would cause a lot of drag and maybe further damage en route. The feeling seems to be that repairs could take months rather than weeks.  :((

https://www.forces.net/qe-class-aircraft-carriers/hms-prince-wales-sail-scotland-monday-repairs

Colin
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Colin Bishop

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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #84 on: October 28, 2022, 11:38:34 am »

Found out what the problem is, doubt whether it will be ever admitted to.
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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #85 on: October 28, 2022, 12:52:00 pm »

Just been reading on the Microsoft/Edge news , Rudder was hit as Screw and shaft went back into it, shaft coupling failure I should imagine. Any way the piece was saying, what went wrong was strange, it could be over a month repair and future deployments under a shadow!
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Circlip

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #86 on: October 28, 2022, 01:28:01 pm »

Was/is it a Huco? :D


  Coat, gone.


  Regards  Ian.
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #87 on: October 29, 2022, 12:29:25 am »

So Dodes says....."Just been reading on the Microsoft/Edge news"....... on the P of W

I cannot find any Microsoft-Edge reporting on the P of W mechanical status beyond 2nd October

Any chance of a link?.............
Is the Microsoft-Edge news reliable?
or is it just hacked crap?

Derek
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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #88 on: October 29, 2022, 04:43:16 pm »

Hi it seems that item ref this vessels problem has been taken down, but it stated quite clearly that the shaft went back sufficiently to foul the rudder. So, to do that an intermediate shaft coupling must have failed, believe when she first arrived in Portsmouth, she had problems with failed intermediate shaft coupling bolts. The Mod now says it will be at least a month to put right what is wrong, and it was an unforeseen problem. There has been gossip she may have the bottom with the prop, but her berth and turning area is dredged to a maintained depth for these vessels and the middle of Pompey harbour is soft mud and old bits of rubbish from very old R.N. vessels, I picked up my stern anchor in mid harbour once and found a complete cosgrieve cannon of about 1830 jammed in the flukes complete with carriage.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #89 on: October 29, 2022, 06:06:30 pm »

There is a report here:

https://www.navylookout.com/hms-prince-of-wales-to-be-dry-docked-while-hms-queen-elizabeth-takes-on-some-of-her-tasking/

But, as Dodes says, it has been reliably reported that the shaft coupling broke allowing the propeller to slide aft and hit the rudder, damaging both.

Subsequently, problems were experienced at Portsmouth in removing the propeller while the ship was afloat which delayed her departure for Rosyth.

It remains to be seen how long repairs will take but only Rosyth has the facilities to undertake them.

Colin
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Baldrick

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #90 on: October 29, 2022, 09:00:00 pm »





         RO9..THINGS TO DO LIST


     1)  Rudder Hit by Prop, unship rudder and examine for extent of damage ensure prop shaft is not bent and pintles and bearings are still within tolerance. repair big dent in rudder hammer back into shape and repaint ( do not bodge up with Isopon !)


     2)   Prop Blades Damaged, unship hub and blades . Examine all parts for damage and replace any damaged or out of tolerance ( do not just hammer back into shape) X ray any retained blades and replace seals to  hub. ensure unit is still in balance.


     3) Rear A Frame Damaged,  Have new unit fabricated and skip existing. Examine hull and fixings for A frame , consider beefing up whole fabrication. New bearing to shaft to be fitted and ensure that lubrication is adequate to withstand working loads , if in any doubt give it a squirt of WD40


     4 ) Tail End Shaft , Check that shaft is still straight and not corkscrewed, we don't want it forever wagging the butt end , especially now that William has  to be answered to . If out of tolerance order up a new one ,perhaps make it two in case another one goes.


     5) Shaft Coupling .  Most obviously we need a new one of these. Where did we buy the one that failed ?  Perhaps try Sweden this time (make sure it has a 12 month guarantee ).


     6) Intermediate Shafts. All the intermediate propulsion shafts need to be withdrawn and examined before replacing in the correct order.


     7) Main Propulsion.   As there were artificer reports of worrying noises in the area of the main starboard turbine and gearbox get someone from the manufacturs in under warranty to check the whole lot over and obtain written assurances that all is tickety boo (Don't mention the foregoing issues to them or they may say we have invalidated any claim).


      8) Put all together in correct order , give two coats of navy grey and a good run down the river .
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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #91 on: November 05, 2022, 06:07:26 pm »

At least the old crate was launched and did sea trials, more can be said for the Caley Mac contract with Ferguson, 5 years overdue and 100 million overspent.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #92 on: December 26, 2022, 11:03:25 am »

As requested on another thread, some photos below of my Corgi model of HMS QE at 1:1250 scale. (it was a Christmas present - hence the delay).

 I am impressed with it. It comes in a display case and although displayed as a waterline model at sea it is actually a full hull model which is screwed to the bottom of the stand.

I bought mine at a discount from Antics for £56.75 (Prince of Wales also available)

I thought the comparisons with the liners QM2 and Titanic would be of interest.

Colin

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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #93 on: December 28, 2022, 01:46:35 pm »

Reading in the Daily Mail, that this bus has spent more time unavailable for sea due to defects than being available for service and she will not be ready until late spring/early summer. I think some hard questions should be asked if not already in secret, of the builders and designers of this build.!!!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #94 on: December 28, 2022, 02:26:46 pm »

As mentioned in the article on the Type 26 frigate programme, it does appear that there are faults resulting from poor workmanship and a lack of expertise by the builders. Not enough properly qualified people just like in the 1930s.

It happens in other areas too. We are all exhorted to insulate our houses and particularly the lofts but round here there are no firms I would regard as being competent to do the job. Any cowboy can spray foam on the underside of the rafters but that can give rise to damp problems and can make the house unsaleable. Same with cavity walls. You need people who really understand what they are doing and probably there are simply not enough of them in UK shipbuilding now. No use having the right bits if you haven't got the right people to weld or screw them together!

Colin
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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #95 on: December 28, 2022, 02:39:19 pm »

Hi Colin, not a truer comment made, all part of a past MP who said she wanted everyone in service industry not dirty manual work!!!
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gingyer

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #96 on: December 28, 2022, 08:05:47 pm »

Colin….
You need to ask what was different between QE and PofW


It wouldn’t be that BAe had less input into the build of PofW and Babcock started to take over the entire show.
Also a lot of people working on PofW didn’t know what a boat was.


I’m hearing rumours that Babcock is now paying significantly more for engineers to move from glasgow to help on the T31s.

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Baldrick

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #97 on: December 28, 2022, 08:34:11 pm »




While we await an update from the POW situation here is an earlier shot curtesy of   https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/εpsilon


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Circlip

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #98 on: December 28, 2022, 08:54:55 pm »

Wonder why they used a Spitfire to take that shot?


  Regards  Ian.
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roycv

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales break down
« Reply #99 on: December 29, 2022, 08:13:34 am »

Hi all, as an adjunct to having these 2 aircraft carriers and I am sure they will eventually be useful warships, well with some aircraft as well.  Generally we do not seem to have done done much of a job on the construction of these ships, I know new tech is not easy but......

The US Navy is having a re-think about strategy after the Ukraine missile attack on the pride of the Russian fleet, Moskva.  Clearly very disabled if not sunk.  There is stuff on the 'net suggesting Battleships, unmanned fighters and drones maybe the next big weapons in whatever combination.
Unless I am also being sucked into a mis-information web!
regards
Roy
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