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[Capt Podge]

As far as I'm aware that information remains under wraps Colin, even now... 


Ray.

[warspite]

and refuelling at sea or while at anchor could still be done, as long as no one notices it next to a tanker during the night

[derekwarner]

Cricky ....it's been #37 posts since October 2022, when any mention was made to the HMS Prince of Wales..... so offered or presented here


What was the price offered and accepted [so far] by workers at Rosyth Dockyard to keep closed lips? 


Derek

[tonyH]

So Kuznetsov worked in a mainly friendly Syrian environment and the 20 year old Hermes alongside Invincible worked but the support group suffered rather a lot, so how much luck rather than judgement? Don't forget the Arctic Conveyor as well! How much did she cost to build? Bu**er all in relative terms.

[Colin Bishop]

Here you go Derek! She should be mended by the Spring. Of course one never really knows when Spring will be these days with climate change.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-64146381

https://www.forces.net/news/repairs-hms-prince-wales-will-continue-until-spring-2023

Colin

[Liverbudgie2]

... A certain R. N. diesel / electric Patrol submarine also performed this vital role throughout the campaign. (name of the boat withheld) 


Aye,
Ray.

You mean the one that ran aground? I think it was an "O" boat.


LB

[Capt Podge]

You mean the one that ran aground? I think it was an "O" boat.


LB

Well, it was definitely an O-boat


Ray

[big_bri]

Hms Onyx? She left Plymouth on 26 April for Ascension island were she picked up some SAS bods for ops down south.

[pipster]

I reckon it was Onyx too - read about it’s Falkland’s trip about a week ago!

Phil

[dodes]

Colin ref the con/sub, easy, they have endurance to cross the Atlantic to the USA, so a couple of R/V's with a RFA and they can play all day and all week in the area.

[roycv]

Hi is the Onyx the same class as the HMAS Oven at the Sydney maritime museum?  ( A lovely example of what a maritime museum should be, as well as Perth)
Roy

[derekwarner]

Roy...HMAS Ovens was one of your famed Oberon Class submarines.......


In earlier life, I walked & ducked & crawled in an operational Oberon Class boat at my workplace, however the Russian submarine at the Maritime Museum [Foxtrot 540] was more spectacular.....


But all of this .....   has nothing to do with the thread subject HMS Prince of Wales in dock at Rosyth........


Derek

[roycv]

Hi Derek I agree that the PoW is the title of this thread but it is new and the underlying point is that was the construction of these ships the right way to go?  There also seem to be some rather public breakdowns as well.  Then you wonder about spending our money etc.

I know there is much planning and building time before they become active naval units and accept that those at the top need to plan for the future.  Other developments will also be on-going and possibly as counter-measures.  For instance Iran is producing drones and they have a 'swarm' approach to attacking large naval units.
Iran has small boats carrying torpedos or small missiles, over 100 of them, with speeds of 50 knots to developing ones that can attain over 100 knots.  You can appreciate it may only require one or two to get close.  Carriers are not battleships but may need to take damage and still remain active.
It is always an escalating problem and then comes along another option, like the high energy 'beam'.
I am learning a lot with this thread but I think the end will always be the same, it is best to be friendly rather than aggressive!

Regards to you Derek, I am on my way late February to Oz and think I will re-visit the Naval museum.
Roy

[derekwarner]

Evening Roy...trust you will pack a pair of Speedos [swinging trunks] for your visit to OZ [just imagine you on the 10m tower    at the Andrew (Boy) Charlton Pool immediately opposite Garden Island Dockyard


https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=f601cfdd56e6761fJmltdHM9MTY3Mjc5MDQwMCZpZ3VpZD0xYTRmYWU1MS05Yzk0LTZiNDUtMjQyOS1iZmFjOWRhNjZhNmImaW5zaWQ9NTIxNQ&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=1a4fae51-9c94-6b45-2429-bfac9da66a6b&psq=Andrew+(Boy)+Charlton+Poo&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY2l0eW9mc3lkbmV5Lm5zdy5nb3YuYXUvcG9vbHMvYW5kcmV3LWJveS1jaGFybHRvbi1wb29s&ntb=1


The images are old, as the 250 tonne Hammerhead crane at GID is long gone, the diving boards at the Pools have also been removed, as we all know that Olympic sport of Diving is dangerous   


I fully understand how WEB Group threads can drift away, or on top of the original subject, however this thread is so important both to understand what caused the fault, and the consequences of the fix......accountability is another word


Having worked for my country's Australian Department of Defence [Navy], I am not sure the final Report into the loss or proposition on the Prince of Wales will not be necessarily designed to be understood by the masses or General Public


I understand the daily news tells of as you say, high-speed dromes and a whole gambit of new attach or assault  weapons, however these new developments really should be the subject under a new WEB thread


Derek

[tonyH]

Hi Roy, Just re. Iran that I posted earlier https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/12/iran-boosts-ircg-navy-swarm-attack-capabilities/
It's also worth considering that modelling potential future ships is likely to be rather boring since they'll either be subs or vessels without any of the "bits" stuck on all over  

[roycv]

Hi Derek, I am too old for Speedos!  But have 3 pairs of ordinary ones.
But back to the thread Derek!!! 
I was checking up on the USA aircraft carriers as used in WW2 and they had no fewer than 151 during the war period.  Many of the famous actions were focussed on the big ones especially the Enterprise.  The large A/C had 70 odd aircraft and with several of them they could use the 'swarm' idea to overwhelm the enemy defence systems.

But the majority were escort carriers and probably the best accompanyment for convoys.  Built in the famous Henry Kaiser yards at incredible speed with around 20 aircraft.  The smaller ones in a convoy protection group were the observation and single attack on enemy submarines, so a different purpose.Maybe it is better to have a few more of the smaller ones as the aircraft now cost so much to build.

It has been highlighted recently that the modern container world distribution system is incredibly vulnerable.

One of the current overheads is the number of the crew and this has been a driving point for new builds.  The big ones like the Nimitz from memory have 3000 personnel, I think I read we have 700 crew on the PoW but it goes up to 1600 with the possible 36 aircraft on board.
There is probably a happy number of crew v size v aircraft carried, I do not know what that is but maybe we are seeing this with the 2 Carriers we have? 

It is noted that they are both driven with non-atomic propulsion.  Is this part of the minimum crew numbers or politically so they can visit young Derek down under?
Regards
Roy

[derekwarner]

Evening TonyH.........as you well have shown.......there is a clear need for the opening of a new Thread here


This evening, I read that ski-doo jet ski's were the basis for new military naval drones which may have been involved with the sinking of Moskuvia


Would you be prepared to open this new thread & leave the PofW loss of proposition story to cleanly progress ...if there was a design fault, naturally the RN would have checked the HMS Queen Elizabeth & the issue rectified........but this is talk under this original thread


Derek

[tonyH]

Hi Derek,
I'll put a test thread on this section, simply because it's physically the closest. Comments as to the need would be appreciated and, of course, Martin may consider that it either falls into a different pot or it could also edge into the quicksand of politics and so be outside the ideals of Mayhem.

Best Wishes
Tony

[dodes]

Have came across info, that the other shaft in the P.o.W has a similar problem which needs now to be attended to.

[Colin Bishop]

Yes, I saw that too. They are saying that the QE is not affected though.

Colin

[Baldrick]

  I bet the Chiefy on HMSQNLZ is spending a lot of time with his ear to the deck dreading strange noises

[Colin Bishop]

QE has done a lot of mileage without reported problems so perhaps the issue with PoW is that the problem was introduced in the construction process. The other posts and reports suggest that quality standards were not always what they should have been.

Colin

[Baldrick]

  Perhaps they purchased 2 sets of shaft bearings off eBay.

[dodes]

Reminds me of the last Invincible, used to suffer vibration and got through two shaft gearbox's, when they decided enough is a enough and she operated on one shaft only for some years. 

[littoralcombat]

Reminds me of the last Invincible, used to suffer vibration and got through two shaft gearbox's, when they decided enough is a enough and she operated on one shaft only for some years.

That's interesting dodes, care to share your source? I have long-term plans to build Invincible in 1/72 so am always on the lookout for any verifiable info related to her. I also worked on her first major Refit at Devonport when I was a lad (Fitter & Turner), so have a decent understanding of her Marine Engineering Plant, including her Main Propulsion Gearboxes which were the largest Marine Boxes ever installed in any Ship when she was built. Pretty big job to change them out.
She certainly did suffer from vibration from one shaftline at certain power settings.
Nige