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[Colin Bishop]

Just a heads up to the discussion on the Model Boats Website about the future of model boating. Lots of interesting points being made and probably worth a look.

https://www.modelboats.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=184063&p=1

Colin

[tigertiger]

I don't know if anyone has investigated this, but a few things that younger (even the very young) are interested in could be combined/integrated into a model boat.
Robitics, Rasberrypi/Arduino, and drones. Before anyone mentions costs, the amount some kids (or their parents) spend on drones, tablets and apps is not small.


In the same wat that people move from model aircraft to model boats (stress, crash costs, etc.), people could start to move from flying drone racing (with FPV) to drone boat racing with FPV.
I also see a lot of Sim APPs for phones based on transport, truck driving, truck parking. Perhaps modifiying Springer Tugs (a very cheap platform)
 to drones and have course running competitions, and parking/manouvering loads. Or for the real adrenaline junkies, making drones of Club 500 boats.

If you look at the popularity of robots, a lot of the attraction is in the design and build, and the programming etc. Water would also provide new challenges for roboteers.

Just some thoughts.

[Subculture]

The decline in the hobby is not exclusive to model boating, any hobby which requires a practical skill set is facing severe challenges in maintaining healthy engagement.

I think a lot is down to a break in the skills set, brought about partially by a decline in industry, changes in the education system to reflect that industrial shift and changes in culture/tastes.

At some point there was a break in the transfer of skills and knowledge on how to make and fix things, and I think that break came in the 1980's. Fast forward forty years or so, and it's hardly surprising numbers are falling.

[Beagle1831]

Some thoughts on this from a young ish (mid 30s) boater: whilst model boating does seem to be less popular, I think we have recently seen more interesting in practical engineering skills from younger people - being a 'maker' as they say seems to be cool again.


Many of these new hobbies seem to relate current technology - eg. Drones, planes, 3D printing. Computer programming seems natural to my undergraduate students - and having tried it, the problem solving skills seem to have a lot in common with 'real world' building. Also check out many YouTube channels dedicated to model making - eg. Tom Stanton's inventions (drone helicopter controlled only by altering the rotational speed of a motor during each revolution - genius!).


Ship modelling in general faces the problem that ships are the most complicated things to build so take the most time investment, compare this to plastic tanks, planes and Warhammer which might be assembled in a few evenings or weekends.


So maybe practical hobbies are alive and well, but are influenced by current trends in engineering?

[ChrisF]

It would be interesting if the likes of Tamiya produced RC boats as well as vehicles. Unlikely I know, but one of the attractions of their models is that they are just assembly rather than a lengthy build from materials like timber which requires certain skills to be developed. This assembly consists of many technical parts which many enjoy putting together. Model boat builders also enjoy building them and I've been building one as well.

Helicopters and drones also contain a lot of technical parts requiring assembly and as said are still being developed which adds to the interest.

Conversely most model boats don't contain many technical parts and only make up a small part of what can be a lengthy build. 3D printing may go some way towards addressing this but we then still have the problem of limited access to suitable water.


So yes, I'm sure that the younger generation are still interested in building mechanical/electronic models etc., including cars and aircraft/drones but just not boats.


I'm guessing that boats were popular many years ago because they were seen as a safer bet in the days before decent RC? I built a plane when I was young but was frightened of flying it as it was free flying and I didn't fancy control line planes. No chance of RC vehicles of course.


All that has now changed and radio equipment now allows sophisticated control of vehicles and aircraft which has allowed them to develop at the expense of boats. 


Chris

[dodgy geezer]

Conversely most model boats don't contain many technical parts and only make up a small part of what can be a lengthy build. 3D printing may go some way towards addressing this but we then still have the problem of limited access to suitable water.[/size]So yes, I'm sure that the younger generation are still interested in building mechanical/electronic models etc., including cars and aircraft/drones but just not boats.

Exactly.  I have had such requests from several CNC hobbyists, and am trying to address them by putting up 'virtual kit pages', where you can download CNC cutting files (DXF format) AND 3-D printing files (STL format - all for free, so an entire boat kit and accessories can be created. Some example pages can be found at


 http://eezebilt.tk/OSAkit.html     or    http://eezebilt.tk/Seakit.html


These were initially intended for school CDT workshops, but more and more people are buying 3-D printers for personal use.  If anyone knows a teacher looking for 3-d projects, perhaps they could draw their attention to the resource?


We still have the problem of easy access to ponds, though....

[terry1956]

It’s not just modelling that is seeing falling numbers. I am a member of a fishing club and a engineering club both can’t get younger members know matter we do to generate interest. It looks more and more that young people are just not interested in anything that doesn’t mean playing on their phones or computers.
The lack of skill based education in our schools is partly to blame. The lack of industry within the country another. But now it’s phones and computer games before model airfix kits.
Sad.

[Colin Bishop]

Yes, the basic issue seems to be that for most people, leisure interests have shifted from 'Makers' to 'Consumers'. Instead of creating you buy!

Colin

[NickelBelter]

The 'entryway' for model boating isn't kids, it's getting the plastic kit boys on board.  Building plastic kits is still a relatively popular hobby and is well represented on Youtube.  It's the closest thing to building an RC boat in terms of skills, processes and outcomes.  Children have always gone through ten different fancies a year and bored quickly. 

It’s not just modelling that is seeing falling numbers. I am a member of a fishing club and a engineering club both can’t get younger members know matter we do to generate interest.

This is surprising, it MUST be a regional thing as fishing is still very popular over here, judging by license sales.  Hunting has tapered off a bit recently though.

[phil_parker]

One of the problems bringing children into the hobby is the greater demands placed on them by schoolwork. A friend's daughter has been getting homework since she was 5. I'm sure I enjoyed several years of freedom when I was that age! But, parents and government love lots of testing, and it's the school's job to prepare their charges for these. Even if they want to, I bet a lot of kids simply don't have time for hobbies that don't offer quick gratification.

I have seen some model engineering clubs bring in the younger members, but I've also talked to people in the target group who have been scared off by some of the members who don't want anyone under 70 to join...

[tonyH]

I don't think that it's just the skill side but also what is the reason for the need. Historically, models weren't just 3D images of the real article but also something original to be continuously developed, modified, engines built, tested and then either scrapped etc. or otherwise died, and this still happens, to an extent, with model planes and cars but not so much with boats. We focus on, in the main and I'm as guilty as anyone, somebody else's work. Some of this is down to regulations but a lot is down to which electronic module to replace so little or no long-term input and where's the fun in that? It's often now down to the "how much?" rather than the "how?" or "why?".
Ramble over....sorry

[Tug Fanatic]

One of the problems bringing children into the hobby is the greater demands placed on them by schoolwork. A friend's daughter has been getting homework since she was 5. I'm sure I enjoyed several years of freedom when I was that age! But, parents and government love lots of testing, and it's the school's job to prepare their charges for these. Even if they want to, I bet a lot of kids simply don't have time for hobbies that don't offer quick gratification..................

I went to a school where we had homework at 5 and where we were certainly tested and made aware of how well or badly we were doing. The objective was to pass the entrance exams to the junior school at age 7 and then to pass the entrance exam at age eleven to be allowed to progress to the secondary school. From age 7 we had weekly exams in both maths & english and the class results list was always published in results order. There was no hiding. From age 7 we also went to school 6 days a week which included Saturday. It was assumed that we would nearly all pass the 11 plus. This was the philosophy that got so many into the best universities at a time when there was real competition to get into university at all. Modelling was a release in the spare time that I made for it. I don't see that children today have it hard.

[Colin Bishop]

And if you weren't working hard enough in secondary school the teachers used to hit you oR throw things like board rubbers at you.... (you could get the occasional slap in primary school too if you stepped out of line.)

We had a really vicious maths teacher, horrible man! I only found out over 50 years later that he had been held in a Japanese prisoner of war camp in WW2.

Colin

[Tug Fanatic]

Yes. From Primary school onward if you handed in poor homework or were naughty you got a detention which was 30 minutes after school and if you got 4 detentions you got caned.

I don't actually remember blackboard rubbers being thrown but I do remember plenty of detentions!

[Geoff]

Whilst a little off topic, both my children are well past school and university age but schools no longer give a class ranking - apparently its divisive and discriminatory!


We were told my daughter had made a 20% improvement over the term, okay sounds good until we saw her work compared to other class students on an open day. She was hopelessly behind as she had a problem. Okay once the school realised we weren't having a pop at them but we had been suspicious there was a problem they eased up and we were all able to apply corrective action to help her. They admitted virtually all parents were asking for the ranking system. It gives everyone a sound idea how a child is developing and if extra help is needed.


She did well in the end GSCE's A levels and University but none of that would have been possible if we hadn't dug to get to the truth.


Because schools are too full of PC nonsense they won't tell you how your child is actually doing relative to others so you have no real idea. Children get left behind and their education damaged because schools are too PC to tell the truth.


Unfortunately the real world isn't like that.


Okay rant over so back to the real topic.


We all agree that membership is down but as a child I had few toys so I made do, pretended or made them and skills with your hands was actively encouraged by schools and parents in those days, so I started making models.


I think the war wasn't such a distant memory so we were also encouraged to make model Spitfires and the like and to play with them. Today that encouragement just isn't there and to be fair its hard to compete when you can go on line and shoot down alien spacecraft and get street kudos for doing so.


In real terms the range and availability and cost of toys has improved tremendously so why make when you can buy?


There seems to be little social approval or perceived benefit in model making these days. I don't know what the solution is but in terms of shows I think multi discipline shows are the way to go as you get more footfall which justifies the increased costs but its not cheap to take a family of four to a show and that's a great put off for many but multi discipline can bring people in.


Cheers


Geoff

[jaymac]

Model boats no street cred can't, boast about having the latest one, almost never on Telly, a bit understandable really

[Tug Fanatic]

.......................They admitted virtually all parents were asking for the ranking system. It gives everyone a sound idea how a child is developing and if extra help is needed..................


Cheers


Geoff

They say they do but a significant minority of parents get very upset if told that their child isn't perfect. They want to believe that their child is perfect and that the school is failing them by not developing their full potential. They would never suggest that they could do more at home nor accept that their child is less able. There are other parents who really want to know & will do anything to help but every teacher knows about the problem group of parents with perfect children (in their opinion). 
There is also the problem that what is average for one school catchment might not be average for others.

I guess street cred comes with visibility. the race car from the right manufacturer with the right advertising and promotion that can be seen by everyone on the road outside the house has more cred than the boat that you made yoursef and which has to be sailed a drive away. To have cred seems to be mainly about how much is spent rather than what has been achieved.

[Barney Magrew]

Whilst I agree with the majority of posts regarding juniors joining the sport  (I have an 11 year old Grandson who would much rather be on his phone or an ipad) Model Boat Clubs as a stand alone club are suffering from Council's lack of support in supplying suitable resources to Boat Club members.I live in Britain's "Ocean City" and we have been promised a new lake for almost 40 years.  But apparently they have no money for that but they can build "Rusty Reg", a statue overlooking the sound for an undisclosed sum of money.Why would you spend money on a model when you have nowhere to sail it.However if you want to buy a skateboard you have a choice of about 5 different sites in the city, none of which are particularly well used.,  They would much rather use the City Centre and wreck all the edges on the walls and benches.

[Geoff]

No education system is perfect but I continue to think the ranking provides a guide. There are many factors involved but it does catch children who appear to be behind the norm so help can be provided. I agree there are some parents whose children are "perfect" and will bitterly contest anything that says they aren't, its always been like that.


There is no easy answer and if you ask 100 people you will probably get 100 different answers!


I agree council support is lacking for model boaters these days. I don't think it has enough visibility for councils to show they are being proactive and great!! Much easier to pay for some monstrous work of art - they seem terrified of being called fuddy-duddy. They should focus funds where they are needed and not on vanity projects.


Sadly without council support for the local ponds they will only go one way. In Southend they decided to repair the concrete banks so raised the edge by over a foot but kept the water level the same so now its very hard to get any models into the water. They also spent a lot on money to improve disabled access, which is fine and proper, so built a ledge over the water with a railing. Hmm not sure how that helps as no one can launch a model boat from there as the drop over the rail is about 3 feet!!


Cheers


Geoff 

[ChrisF]

Yes. From Primary school onward if you handed in poor homework or were naughty you got a detention which was 30 minutes after school and if you got 4 detentions you got caned.

I don't actually remember blackboard rubbers being thrown but I do remember plenty of detentions!

At junior school I was hit on the face with a ruler by a teacher during a school play for allegedly making a noise in the wings! At high school one of the technical drawing teachers used to twist your sideburns and the woodwork teacher threw pieces of timber at you and board rubbers! Fortunately the metalwork teacher didn't do anything! And they were good schools in a nice area.


And I married a teacher!


Chris

[Geoff]

I got the slipper for running in the corridor! I've also seen one teacher take it too far and punch a 13 year old boy off his chair (bad school). That should never have been permitted but the cane should be because it can act as a deterrent. However those days are long gone and 'little Johnny' mustn't be upset! And as for corporal punishment, never these days.


In my opinion most children can be controlled and chastised with a verbal telling off, detention and the like but some (in the minority) only seem to understand physical chastisement. Either way you need parental support as otherwise there is no real punishment.


There is a lot of talk about an exclusion policy being unfair - sometimes it probably is but they also need to consider the disruptive impact on other children's education. To quote Spok, 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few!'



Today we seem to live in a society where the needs of the few dictate how the majority must behave!

[Geoff]

Yes, I forgot, twisted sideburns really used to hurt! Did no real harm though!!

[Colin Bishop]

We got twisted ears...

Colin

[dodgy geezer]

Stories about schoolday punishments are all very interesting, but, just as has happened in the original Model Boats thread, we have drifted far from the original question.  It almost seems as if no one really wants to address the issue. 


The impression that I have is that modern children, though having many more pastimes than we had to attract their attention, are still open to creative hobbies which involve making things.  The big problem is that they can make a car and drive it on any convienient bit of flat ground, but to sail a boat you need a pond or lake, and these have been extensively removed from public access. Clubs still have their own local lakes - often private or of limited access, but there are few places nowadays where a young kid can go and sail a pond yacht.  Model flyers found this problem in the 1970s and 80s, and the SMAE did quite a lot of work with local government to ensure that the interests of model aircraft were considered in sport and recreational provision.  I know of no any matching negotiations from any representative boating authorities - unless someone can correct me on this?


If we had moved earlier we might have been able to save some of the many boating pools in parks which were all filled in during the 1980s.  And even now we may get some recognition for the few that remain. I think that if the hobby is to be revived then ensuring that provision for it is protected, and expanded if possible, should be an early agenda item...

[kinmel]

I agree council support is lacking for model boaters these days. I don't think it has enough visibility for councils to show they are being proactive and great!! Much easier to pay for some monstrous work of art - they seem terrified of being called fuddy-duddy. They should focus funds where they are needed and not on vanity projects.
Sadly without council support for the local ponds they will only go one way. In Southend they decided to repair the concrete banks so raised the edge by over a foot but kept the water level the same so now its very hard to get any models into the water. They also spent a lot on money to improve disabled access, which is fine and proper, so built a ledge over the water with a railing. Hmm not sure how that helps as no one can launch a model boat from there as the drop over the rail is about 3 feet!!

I think it depends upon your relationship with council officers, at Colwyn Bay we are allowed 7 day a week complete control of the park lake and even have "club member only" lakeside parking with members holding their own key to the bollard on the access road. 

Licences to other organisers of events in the park require them not to interfere with our activities.
It all works on trust that we always work within our Licence conditions and are on first name terms with council staff at every level - it is harder to say no to Alan, than to say it to the club secretary.