Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Patternmaker on August 04, 2009, 09:06:13 am
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Any ex national servicemen out there, where were you posted!
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Royal Marines 1952 - 54. Initial training at RMITC, Lympstone (now Commando School), then to Eastney and Landing Craft Training Wing at Fort Cumberland. Coronation and then to HMS Royal Prince, Royal Naval Rhine Squadron, Krefeld, Germany, as an LCA coxswain until demob. :-))
Seems like a long time ago now. :((
Derek. :police:
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Hi Derek,
That's proper national service thanks for that, myself 3 para 1953-1955 training Blackdown posted to Egypt Tel Kabir until demob recalled AER October1956 Suez War Operation Musketeer in last operational drop by para's to take El Gamil air field and secure beachhead for Marines.28 jumps in total, got my medals in 2004 better late than never, yes is does seem a long time ago but you never forget your mates.
Mick
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"Get your knees brown" as they used to say!
I was in the Royal Signals 1948-1950, nine months at Catterick, then the rest of the time was in Egypt, Nairobi and Mogadishu (formerly Italian Somaliland).
My strategy at the outset was to be a photographer based in the Deva section in Chester, but the army authorities, true to form, made me a Radio Mechanic and sent me to Africa!
Brian
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I was in the next to last batch, went in in September as it finished in the October, <:(
Bacis training , Bridge North
Trade training, Freckelton, near Blackpool
First camp, Rudlow Manor, Wiltshire , 10 months
On standby for ADEN,
Was posted to WEETON, near Blackpool till I came out
I was in the RAF as a nursing attendant and crash amblance medic. ;) ;)
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Hi Derek,
That's proper national service thanks for that, myself 3 para 1953-1955 training Blackdown ...
Not national service but trained at Blackdown in the 80s. I never realised it used to be Para.
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Hello,
Got called up into the Army on a Thursday, the following Thursday National Service ENDED !!.
Posted to Germany, Royal Artillery as a Radar Operator.
Two months before De-mob got an extra 6 MONTHS, Russian Cuba Crisis !!.
Needless to say, I just LOVE Russians and Yanks.
Had three Sons since, warned them all, "Broken Legs" will stop you from joining the Forces !!.
It worked !.
John. :} :} :}
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Not national service but trained at Blackdown in the 80s. I never realised it used to be Para.
Ron, basic training at Blackdown para training at Helles Barracks in Catterick North Yorkshire
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Thanks for you responses, what are your views on bringing back National Service?
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Ist Battalion the Royal Scots, 1954/6 basic training Glencorse Barracks, Penicuick. HQ signals platoon. 12 months Egypt, Canal Zone, 6 months Cyprus, Paphos/Ktima Coral Bay. Demob Pinefield Camp , Elgin. Loved the pyramids and sphinx, watching ships on canal, Troodos mountains, Greek and Turkish food ,drink and music. Sailed on troopship Empire Ken home and HMS Striker , Suez to Limassol. Bring it back , made a man of me. Bet you can still remember your service number ! 23044212 was mine.
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22867464 reporting for duty, I sailed back on Dilwara 10 days from Port Said to Southhamton. Sounds like you had a good time bit different to when I was there, active service for 20 months garding Bridges to Ismailia and Tel Kabir.
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Thanks for you responses, what are your views on bringing back National Service?
Royal Marine in the 80's, still remember my service number %) I believe that a professional military with motivated members that have chosen the life is preferable to forced labour.
Sweden still has the draft! Conscientious objectors are sent to the Fire Brigade or similar I believe....http://www.mil.se/en/About-the-Armed-Forces/The-Swedish-military-service-system/ (http://www.mil.se/en/About-the-Armed-Forces/The-Swedish-military-service-system/)
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double post.....
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better not join in topic.i was a regular RAF 22 yrs
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W3bby, I was thinking more of the social problems with certain sections of the youth that would benefit from a sense of purpose, clean healthy education, good regular food, etc etc not the military aspect and the risks involved.
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Just a little extra to my original posting. My service number was RM129714 and my initial training squad at Lympstone was 823. I have searched Google Maps for my old base in Germany - Royal Naval Rhine Squadron - and it now appears to be just a derelict site. I remember having to perform guard duty and the favourite posting was the 'Quarter Deck' which, in actual fact, was just a small area of tarmac with a sentry box and the flag pole where the Union Flag was raised and lowered at the appropriate times and the order 'All hands on the upper deck face aft and salute' was piped over the Tannoy. The reason for the popularity was that it was right next to a German soap factory and the sentry was always treated to an exciting disply when the ladies showered at the end of their shift - didn't seem to matter that it was clear glass in the windows :-)) :-) ;)
As mentioned previously, my base was HMS Royal Prince and our sister ship was HMS Black Prince at Hamburg. Royal Prince was, in fact, a large motor cruiser used by the skipper and was rumoured to have been Goering's yacht.
The Royal Marines National Service numbers were prefixed with RM which differentiated you from the regulars.
Derek. :police:
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As only one has given views of bringing back conscription this is my opinion, it would be a good idea for young offenders to teach them respect and discipline but not to send them to combat zones. In our time we had no choice. Between 1948 and 1960 one in twelve served in an active theatre of operations. Approximately 1500 conscripts were killed in action; many more were lost in accidents in six campaigns in Malaya, Korea, Kenya, Cyprus, Suez and South Arabia.
They should also be reminded that the life we have today is due to those who paid the ultimate price in WW1 and WW2
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There are two major problems with the re-introduction of National Service - three, if you include the fact that the country is broke and couldn't afford it anyway.
The first is the problem of discipline. Today's youngsters do not have the innate discipline that teenagers in the 50s and 60s had. It would take far too long to "train" them.
Second is the "professionalism" of today's armed forces. Even the humblest squaddy now need to have more skills that could be taught to the average no-hoper within the allotted period of compulsory service.
And apart from anything else, why should a professional, highly trained and currently overstretched force be tasked with picking up the failures generated by poor education and indifferent parenting?
Rick (22 years in the RAf)
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National service is an interesting idea. But as suggested, who would pay for it.
In Germany (in the 80s, don't know about now) there were choices for national service. You could do 1 year military service or 2 years (I think) social service. The latter included hospital work and the postal service.
One benefit of any form of service is that it is a social leveller. Kids from many different social backgrounds are all in the same boat and have to pull together against a common enemy, the training staff. That can only be good for a society that is becoming more fragmented, as UK society is (IMHO).
As for professionalism and training levels, this was always a compliant of the regulars. But not all national service men went to front line units. ***offending reference removed***
As for lack of discipline, I wasn't prepared for military discipline, nobody is. It came as a screaming shock at 0600 on day two, along with the barbers parade at 0930.
Military discipline is a bit of a misnomer anyway. It is not about being a disciplined person, I never was and I still am not. It is about being regimented.
Disciplined is if I get up at 6am every morning and go for a run.
Regimented is if everybody gets up at 6am and goes for a run.
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I would like to say something about National Service because I went through it for 2 and half years full time and subsequently for the next 13 times yearly ranging from a couple of days to 2 to 3 weeks.
National Service is a must here and I strongly agree and accept that it is good. It builds character in youth and brings people of all races together and train and fight together. It's a way of getting all kinds of people mixed in and make future generation live together in harmony.
Anyway, who gets to drive a 5 ton truck, drive a tank, fire an automatic rifle at the age of 18, 20? National service gave me an insight into the world of warfare, living it out in the open and I have never regretted getting into it (although I have no chioce really).
Btw, I am talking from Singapore.
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[quote author=tigertiger link=topic=18927
As for professionalism and training levels, this was always a compliant of the regulars. But not all national service men went to front line units. Many were REMFs.
Your reference to REMFs is very offensive to me personally and the next of kin of all those who were killed in Suez and Korea, many of 3 para who served in Operation Musketeer were national servicemen called up on reserve as we had previously served in Egypt on active service. Our training and commitment was no different to regulars Lt Col Paul Crook commander in chief said he preferred national servicemen with combat experience.
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I am sorry that you feel offended.
Having often been called a REMF myself, even though I never served in rear echelon units only field force units, I do not find it offensive.
I said 'many', not 'all' national service men ...
Para units are not rear echelon troops, never have been. So I don't think it applies.
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.... apart from anything else, why should a professional, highly trained and currently overstretched force be tasked with picking up the failures generated by poor education and indifferent parenting?
Rick you found the words I have been looking for the past few days without it being offensive. All my attempts seemed to be, possibly, that way inclined when finished and hence not posted.
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Ain't life grand.
It is good to see that the age old argument that the regs are better than Nashos/reservists or vice versa is also alive in the UK. :-))
As for the argument that the Regs don't have time to train Nashos, garbarge. >>:-(
Nashos, reservists etc are equally as good because they all come from the same place initially. O0
That is they were all civilians. <:(
It is the training that counts. :-))
Nashos are taught respect :police: but I wonder with political correctness and "civil rights" <*< if we are not producing namby pambies to the benefit of our foes.
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Totally agree with your comments.
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Bit sneaky.
I was working in the aircraft industry, was due to be in the last batch for call up. So transferred to another aircraft company doing 'work of national importance ' (building Gannets) so missed it all, can't say that I was disappointed. Sorry chaps.
Colin
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Missed National Service by a couple of years. But a privileged upbringing meant that I went to a public school with a CCF, formerly OTC. Never mind 18, who got to fire Lee-Enfields, Brens, Sterlings and FNs at 16? And fly in Chipmunks, Provosts and even a Valetta? Or go for arduous training with the Chasseurs Alpins? And the Scouts, as they were then, had been a good intro to that sort of thing.
Why can't something like that be organised for everyone? Perhaps the sticking point is that our parents were required to sign a blood chit to the effect that we did as we were told, and that if anything happened to us it was nothing to do with the school, the masters, or anyone else. Risk assessment - wassat?
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better not join in topic.i was a regular RAF 22 yrs
Rockape?
As for the argument that the Regs don't have time to train Nashos, garbarge.
Nashos, reservists etc are equally as good because they all come from the same place initially. OK
That is they were all civilians.
It is the training that counts.
There is no argument it's just a fact, conscripts can never reach up to the level of proper volunteers <*<
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There is no argument it's just a fact, conscripts can never reach up to the level of proper volunteers
Well that statement flies in the face of history in both world wars - Army, Navy and Air Force!
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Well that statement flies in the face of history in both world wars - Army, Navy and Air Force!
Absolutely the case here. :-))
For example,Look at WWI, WWII and Vietnam.
Read the histories and it is clearly acknowledged. :-))
Have seen,Nasho/reservists out shoot, outperform Regs.
Bottom line with good training they all come out the same.
Here endeth the lesson. :kiss: :kiss:
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Well that statement flies in the face of history in both world wars - Army, Navy and Air Force!
Really, compared with what, Falklands, Afghanistan?
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Sorry Gang, Regular RN from an RN and Sea going family going back over 300 years...
As For National Service I think a selective service scheme could be a good thing IF it was set up and run correctly,---- not just to produce Cannon fodder--- A lot of young people these days can't get jobs because they have the wrong kind of Education, Training or Back ground or they want to sit in front of a computer in a nice office and would never consider picking up a spanner... A year or two training in a support roll might encourage some of these people to enlist in the forces or at least give them a start in a Trade in civil life when their time is up... But the key is selective service, People who have been unable to find employment could be given the opportunity to join ... there is a vast untapped reservoir of knowledge and undeveloped skills going to waist out there
Freebooter
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I very much agree, also it'd be a good way of gaining some of the skilled labour we need without importing it
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It is obvious that all the "Regs" are missing the point and are burying their heads in the sand. O0
Namely all "Regs" Afghanistan etc came from the same civilian pool. :-))
So how did they become "Regs" obviously they were trained. :-)) %)
So are you "Regs" now saying you are incompetent :} and cannot successfully train from the same civilian pool. :((
If the recruits don't turn out OK it is because of the training not the individual. {:-{ {:-{
C'mon guys give us a break. >>:-( <*<
Because we, in OZ are lacking "Regs" we are using Reservist's to make up the shortfall, Yep in Afghanistan. :-)) :D :}
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I was called up on the next to last day before it finished.
I went to Bridgnorth for 6 weeks square bashing and then on to Melksham where I spent fifteen weeks training as an aircraft electrician.
Most of our flight were ex apprentices in one form or another and were considered inteligent enough to go on for further training.
I eventually rose in rank to the dizzy heights of senior aircraftsman.The only thing preventing my further promotion was the fact I had to sign on for a minimum of three years.
The general view of NS was,Treat them with respect as most of them are concientious and reliable.The thought of putting yobos into national service is an insult to all the services.
Brian ex RAF
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If the recruits don't turn out OK it is because of the training not the individual. {:-{ {:-{
Don't be too quick to assume what we regulars are thinking.
I think all the regulars would agree with you on the points you are making about the raw materials (kids) and training.
The issue is that many part timers in the UK don't get the training, or the time at the sharp end to hone these skills.
The Territorial army in the UK for the most part lack essential training. This is a fault of government policy and MOD budgets.
I once had to (on exercise) serve under a TA Sargeant who had 10 years experience of odd weekends and a two week camp every year (total less than 2 years experience at the job and long periods of non service). Nightmare. He was telling me how to do a trade that was my full time job. He was also supposed to be superior at military skills. This is where the friction between regulars and part timers comes from.
In the past, many UK national servicemen got only 6 weeks training before being sent to the sharp end. OK for those in the rear echelon perhaps, but not for infantry troops.
The old hands spent a lot of energy keeping the newbies alive, while they learned on the job.
There are exceptions to the lack of training issue. Like the part time US troops who have done full time tours of duty in Iraq. They deserve respect.
The fact that most of the British army at the beginning of WW2 was a conscript/volunteer army is also not forgotten. Most of the regular army (The Expeditionary Force) had been smashed before Dunkirk.
Also, as regulars in cold war Europe, we were well aware of the fact that our role was to slow down the advance of the Red Forces, until the conscript army could be mobilised. A matter of days or at best a few weeks.
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Somebody forced to do something will never be as good as somebody who asks to do it (and has better training). That they both started out as civillians is irrelevant
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I don't know the numbers but there are Canadian Reservist/Melita serving in Afghanistan, From what I have been told the Part-Timers here are now getting much better training and integration with the Regs then they used to.
I was all set to join up when I was in High School, had planned on doing SAR, then the last semester I blew my knee out. As both my family doctor and the specialist I had seen were the military doctors for the area I couldn't get in.
Regards,
Gerald.
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This topic has now developed into Regulars versus National Servicemen.
This is my experience of the regulars serving in Suez from 1953 to 1956 including operation Musketeer, 90% of us on active service where
National service, this also applied to Korea Most of the regulars at that time were posted to Germany considered to be a home posting.
We had regular Officers straight from Sandhurst with no combat experience giving orders, on one occasion when Egyptian Commanders penetrated our garrison at Tel-al-kabir and were cornered in our vehicle battery store where thousands of 24v Batteries where being stored and charged I was ordered by a 2nd Lieutenant to take my platoon in and flush them out with grenades, an order which I refused to carry out giving the obvious reasons of Hydrogen Gas waited for them to emerge and rapidly dealt with the situation.
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He put me on a charge, a court marshal offence for disobeying orders. The officer and I where summoned before the CO who called the officer a
F****** Idiot and was promptly sent back to the UK.
Basically whether Regulars or National Service its all down to training and
experience.
Some of 3 Para killed in the Falklands where only 18
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Some of 3 Para killed in the Falklands where only 18
Yes, one of them was a friend of mine though he was 19
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It may not be widely known, :-)) but the permanents O0 AKA regs, since federation 1901, were not allowed to serve outside Australia :embarrassed: until the law was changed well after WWII. >:-o Oz had conscription for its wars who were the original ANZAC's :kiss:
The battle honours, traditions, etc were not earned by the Regs.
Today as is the case elsewhere the Regs {:-{ are still putting their heads in the sand O0 and making unfounded and unproven claims {:-{ that it is only they who are fit and capable to defend :(( Basically they have shot themselves in the foot :embarrassed: because of this attitude <:( they are finding it more than difficult to retain members <*< let alone increase recruiting.
Many more examples as indicated by Patternmaker abound.
"This topic has now developed into Regulars versus National Servicemen"
Only became so when the Regs raised the old chestnut of their superiority over National servicemen, couldn't let that slide.
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Well said, RaaArtyGunner
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Finland still has compulsory National Service, most of the kids look forward to it
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Breaking away from this rather sensative subject I would like to tell you about lack of proper training in civvy street.
In the seventies I had a small plumbing and heating business employing on average five plumbers.
They were a mixed bag but all good lads.I also took on a government trainee from a 6 months course in plumbing.
He was a quiet unassuming guy but had to be watched like a hawk.After about six months he was getting nowhere and was becomming a liability so we had to part company.
Nowadays you can become a plumber after a six week intensive course.
GOD HELP THE BUILDING TRADE :-))
Thankfully retired
Brian
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Brian, Its not always that bad. My grandson, now 21 years of age, did a full 5 years apprenticeship including day release at Tech college. He has just finished a complete re-plumb of his Mum`s house and his work is brilliant. Pete
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Pete I know it's not all bad but aprenticeships are few and far between.Congratulations to your grandson.It's unusual to find someone willing to stick it out for twelve months let alone five years
He has entered a fine carear and I hope he enjoys it as much I did.I still like the smell of new construction.Had it not been bad health that stopped me at 69 I would still be merrily plumbing along now :-))
Kind regards and good luck for the future
Brian
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Only became so when the Regs raised the old chestnut of their superiority over National servicemen, couldn't let that slide.
Not a chestnut tho is it? ;D
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Breaking away from this rather sensative subject I would like to tell you about lack of proper training in civvy street.
In the seventies I had a small plumbing and heating business employing on average five plumbers.
They were a mixed bag but all good lads.I also took on a government trainee from a 6 months course in plumbing.
He was a quiet unassuming guy but had to be watched like a hawk.After about six months he was getting nowhere and was becomming a liability so we had to part company.
Nowadays you can become a plumber after a six week intensive course.
GOD HELP THE BUILDING TRADE :-))
Thankfully retired
Brian
Unfortunately similar changes have occurred in OZ. :(( So long as all training is completed and that can be at the pace of the individual, ie 12 months or longer, they become qualifiesd tradesmen.
It is called "Block training ", carried out by training providers <:(
Regrettably it produces eg, Carpenters who cannot cut out roofs let alone construct the roof, unless manufactured roof trusses are available.
There is no such thing an apprenticeship any more.
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Not a chestnut tho is it? ;D
Try and tell that to the Regs, O0 good luck. :-X
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It may not be widely known, :-)) but the permanents O0 AKA regs, since federation 1901, were not allowed to serve outside Australia :embarrassed: until the law was changed well after WWII. >:-o Oz had conscription for its wars who were the original ANZAC's :kiss:
The battle honours, traditions, etc were not earned by the Regs.
Today as is the case elsewhere the Regs {:-{ are still putting their heads in the sand O0 and making unfounded and unproven claims {:-{ that it is only they who are fit and capable to defend :(( Basically they have shot themselves in the foot :embarrassed: because of this attitude <:( they are finding it more than difficult to retain members <*< let alone increase recruiting.
Many more examples as indicated by Patternmaker abound.
"This topic has now developed into Regulars versus National Servicemen"
Only became so when the Regs raised the old chestnut of their superiority over National servicemen, couldn't let that slide.
G'day
Your first sentence is not correct.
Australia's CMF was not allowed to serve out Australia or its Territories however, this as changed during to WW2 to allow our CMF to fight in the Pacfic.
There are other mistakes in your arugement.
Cheers
Bill
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G'day
Your first sentence is not correct.
Australia's CMF was not allowed to serve out Australia or its Territories however, this as changed during to WW2 to allow our CMF to fight in the Pacfic.
There are other mistakes in your arugement.
Cheers
Bill
Here we go again. O0
[color=purple]"Although the Defence Act required men to undergo training with the militia, it specified that no Australian (including members of the regular military forces) could be compelled to serve overseas". >>:-( <*< [/color]
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Here we go again, if regulars were so superior to national servicemen why was I and many others from 3 para recalled by AER to fight in the Suez war 1956 to regain the Canal, the reason being there were not sufficient regulars with combat training and experience to do the job.
This also applied to Korea, remember the Glorious Gloucestershire regiment and the battle of the Imjin River supported by the Royal Artillery many
of the troops were national service reservists
If there are any regulars of all the services who have posted comments on this topic have actually fought in campaigns in the 50s I would very much like to know of your experiences.
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Here we go again, part timers thinking they can do the job %)
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Here we go again, part timers thinking they can do the job
Hardly. Consider that reserve forces are (sorry were) trained to the same standards as the regulars.
I served with regulars and have a great respect for many of them. Most of our lads were either ex-regular or ex-national service guys. The "reserve forces only" types ( like me) were just coming into being because national service had finished and that supply of manpower had dried up. Add to that the simple fact that the Goverment rules on who could join reserve forces had to be altered so that technical people in certain occupations could be used to replace the previous supply of manpower. I actually had to wait for about six months before the rules changed and was told by my Commander (L) that the old idea of training any occupation into what he needed was thankfully over.
I would think that any rational person would accept the fact that in times of emergency any trained manpower is vital - regardless of whether or not they do it full time or part time.
I'm thankful that in my service I never once ran into any biased opinions such as have been expressed on this thread. Most of the lads looked on us perhaps as a bit of a novelty at times but at the end of the day we were all (literally) in the same boat and subject to exactly the same QR&AI.
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I don't know how relvent this is to this thread but we somehow have got on to the subject of the Apprentice. At sea we call them Cadets The Marine Survey Company I worked for,... Years ago started training Deck and Engineering Officer Cadets Both Male and Female mainly at first in selfdefence as we couldn't get Bridge officers with the high degree of ship handling skills required to do the job Most of the Kids stayed with it and got their Tickets (4 year apprenticeship + College time and then exam's)...Some are still working for the company including a now married couple (Engineer & Mate) who often sail togeather .... The company also Train's Marine Surveyors and underwater E/R 's and the fitters in the various workshops and--- take on college students for work experience ---Most of these Kids are keen to learn but even after leaving college with their degree's are woefully ignorant of things in the real world----Shipping Company's have almost allways trained cadets (Some I must say because cadets ware cheaper to employ in the old days than seamen) The only problem being that this country (even though being an island and dependent on ships and seaman) has treated it's seamen and the industry so badly that British ships and Men are going the way of the Dinosore....I suppose the point of this ramble is that you have to get recruits from somewhere and some of the best training you can get is on the job training :-)) I've never yet met a good seaman who learned his trade out of a book or from a vidio or computer game {:-{the only way is to get on deck and get your hands dirty
Freebooter :((
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Hardly. Consider that reserve forces are (sorry were) trained to the same standards as the regulars.
Yes, that's what they all say {-)
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Here we go again, part timers thinking they can do the job %)
What I asked for (quote If there are any regulars of all the services who have posted comments on this topic have actually fought in campaigns in the 50s I would very much like to know of your experiences.)
Not insulting comments.
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I did 22 years as a regular, including several tours of active service in the 50`s. I worked, and fought, alongside some excellent National Service men. As with everything, don`t tar them all with the same brush. Pete
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Thanks for your sensible comment Pete
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Hey, it's only a message board, not real life ya know. A sense of perspective (and humour) would be a breath of fresh air {-) {-) {-)
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Er, Boatyboy,this is real life but not as we know it,or perhaps I should get out more,or perhaps we both should get out more. {-)
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No, in a very true sense this isn't real life, well it's not mine anyway.
My wife says I get out too much already %%
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No, in a very true sense this isn't real life, well it's not mine anyway.quote)
It is real life when you had seen your mates blown to pieces; I myself was wounded and did not think it was at all humorous.
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Hey, it's only a message board, not real life ya know. A sense of perspective (and humour) would be a breath of fresh air {-) {-) {-)
Having a go at a lot of people who have fought and given their lives so that you can have the freedom to insult them is not what we would regard as humour, and when you are old enough you will learn about perspective.
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Dicky, well said I couldn't have put it any better myself, trying to find the words not to enter in a slanging match with a certain member.
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i served in the RAF 22 years met plenty of ns men most of them were as good as the regulars some were even better end of topic regiment
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mmmmm ....tomorrow is ANZAC day here in OZ & Kiwi ...so lest we forget....Derek
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hey dicky
a. how old am I?
b. where was I having a go at anyone?
seems like anyone who has a different view from the messageboard clique is attacked, nice one gang
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hey dicky
a. how old am I?
b. where was I having a go at anyone?
seems like anyone who has a different view from the messageboard clique is attacked, nice one gang
I would say you are in your late teens or twenties but your memory is going already.
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Ah, ok2 look into my eyes he said you are now feeling sleepy, O0 repeat after me I...................................... :}
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Close dicky mate (I wish), just a few decades out
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Looking back at "National Service" days....not mine, just the time.
At my age then I would have been in the bracket for the almost last of them. But as I wanted a career at sea, and was doing a pre-sea cadet stint I presume I was "ignored" ......but when I eventually joined a ship I was surprised how many of the junior engineers had elected to join the MN rather than being conscripted. I guess it wasn't all that surprising that when conscirption ended there was a big shortage of junior engineers within the MN. BY.
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I asked the question if there are any regulars of all the services who have posted comments on this topic have actually fought in campaigns in the 50s I would very much like to know of your experiences.
Only 1 would has answered the question so to close this topic If anyone is interested here are my experiences as a National serviceman.
Called up March 1953 aged 20, I was deferred for 2 years working on secret work for MOD as a patternmaker.
After basic training and para training I was posted to Egypt at Tel el Kebir on active service for 22 months, de-mobbed March 1955.
Recalled by AER as reservist October 1956 for Suez Crisis took off from Stansted to Nicosia stopped at Luga in Malta to refuel, (in flight meals provided by a MBM member Corporal with 22 years service in RAF)
600 paras of 3 battalion left Nicosia at 0500 hours on 5th November in Hastings and Valletta aircraft with fighter escort, we arrived at the DZ El Gamil airstrip at 0715, I was in the first plane our gear was dropped in containers because we had to jump from 500ft as the airfield was only 1 mile long and ½ mile wide surrounded by water on both sides. Luckily the Egyptians had placed oil drums on the airstrip which gave us some cover.
We lost 3 men later in the day Private Barnett, Private Bates, &
Private Sumners, my mate Corporal Jim Wood died of his wounds the next day and is buried in a military cemetery in Nicosia, in total 23 killed on that day I was hit in my right elbow from a ricochet thankfully not serious attended by a medic, field dressings shot of morphine and back in action. 70 Egyptians soldiers were killed and hundreds taken prisoner that day, most of them armed with AK47s
On 23rd November the UN ordered a ceasefire, had we been allowed to finish the job the Canal would never have blocked and there would not have been petrol rationing in the UK.
We returned home a forgotten army because of the political scandal which forced Anthony Eden to resign as PM.
We were given one concession, we would not have to undergo any more AER training but were still eligible for call up to the age of 45
The powers that be decided to give us medals in 2003
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WHAT A VERY GOOD ANSWER A FEW NOSES RUBBED IN THE ????? THANKS FOR THE MENTION IN DESPATCHES (REGIMENT )
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[quote author=tigertiger link=topic=18927
As for professionalism and training levels, this was always a compliant of the regulars. But not all national service men went to front line units. Many were REMFs.
Your reference to REMFs is very offensive to me personally and the next of kin of all those who were killed in Suez and Korea, many of 3 para who served in Operation Musketeer were national servicemen called up on reserve as we had previously served in Egypt on active service. Our training and commitment was no different to regulars Lt Col Paul Crook commander in chief said he preferred national servicemen with combat experience.
I was called up on March 16th, Basic training at Oswestry (Royal Artillery) Applied for Para Training. was accepted and Passed ! ( No mean feat, ask anyone who did it!) On the 5th November did my first Service drop, Suez. I was 19 and 10 days. Try that with a 19 year old today. Many of my mates were NS. We did as we were told, because our Sergeant had jumped into Operation Varsity in WW !! So he knew what he was on about. We were S--t scared of him but respected him as well, that was our Discipline! I still have Nightmares.About that and Cyprus which followed
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hells bell s trying to add up all of the inflight meals i helped pack families returning to the uk troops going out busy time was had by all 1956 long time ago now hastings hermes any thing that could fly not forgetting the old warhorse the shackeiton 10 thousand rivits and a pray god bless the N /S men and the regulers of course
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...you forgot the triple-finned Avro "York".
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Yes, a 10 hour flight in an Avro York you're deaf for 2 days
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Here we go again, part timers thinking they can do the job %)
Just what is your background on this, Boaty Boy? This is probably the most offensive posts I've ever seen on this forum. BY.
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THAT IS WHY WE ISSUED THE CHEWING GUM FOR CHEW IT AND BUNG IN YER EOLE
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It was the backward-facing seats that I didnt like....oh and the very low approach over the sea to Malta airport with the dumped aircraft clearly visible on the seabed at the end of the runway.
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Any disrespect for other forum members will get you a yellow card or banned.
We debate, we don't argue.
Martin - admin.
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Any disrespect for other forum members will get you a yellow card or banned.
We debate, we don't argue.
Martin - admin.
Well said, seems to me that there is some trolling going here.
All servicemen / women deserve respect, whether CMF, Terror's, Reservists or Nasho's .
I also include MN.
cheers
bill
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Great Bill, could we have that in English, ok2
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Any disrespect for other forum members will get you a yellow card or banned.
We debate, we don't argue.
Martin - admin.
I totally agree Martin, unfortunately offensive remarks will cause retaliation, when I started this topic I had no idea there was such disagreement between Regulars and Nation Servicemen.
God Bless our boys in Afghanistan
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Now then,come on fellers.
I think it's time this topic was dropped if it's causing offence.
I can only say where ever I went we all got on pretty well together.We had a job to do and just got on with it NS and regulars.
Shortly before demob I was interviewed by the lets say careers officer who was keen for me to sign on as a regular along with other NS guys,but civvy street beconned.I also fancied civvy money.Service pay was not very good at that time.
Mind you I had 5 jobs in 6 months,it took me ages to settle back into civvy life.
More than anything I missed the comeradery.
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Breaking away from this rather sensative subject I would like to tell you about lack of proper training in civvy street.
In the seventies I had a small plumbing and heating business employing on average five plumbers.
They were a mixed bag but all good lads.I also took on a government trainee from a 6 months course in plumbing.
He was a quiet unassuming guy but had to be watched like a hawk.After about six months he was getting nowhere and was becomming a liability so we had to part company.
Nowadays you can become a plumber after a six week intensive course.
GOD HELP THE BUILDING TRADE :-))
Thankfully retired
Brian
Are there any Apprentiship schemes in UK ? Here in Germany you have to do at least 2 years Apprentiship for all jobs. Shop Assistant is 3 years, Petrol Pump Attendent 2 years. All building Trades 3 years, this includes compulsery Schooling in detail and Theory, and Practice. Then every year a progress exam and the Final. So everyone, if they finish, have a Trade.If they don't they don't get a job!
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I'm sure there are apprenticeships in the Uk now but with the recession we're in at the moment I think they will be like herns teeth.I must admit I'm out of touch theese days but Petes grandson has just finished one so there is hope. :-))I think that they will be available withe larger companies as with all the new rules and regulations thrust upon small businesses the cost would be prohibitive.
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Now I know why my Dad (27 years a regular) used to quote "old soldiers never die.....the young ones wish they would".
Maybe everyone did their best with the training they were given. Respect.
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The whole NS vs regular started with the thoughts on bringing back conscription and using it for certain sections of society.
W3bby, I was thinking more of the social problems with certain sections of the youth that would benefit from a sense of purpose, clean healthy education, good regular food, etc etc not the military aspect and the risks involved.
As only one has given views of bringing back conscription this is my opinion, it would be a good idea for young offenders to teach them respect and discipline but not to send them to combat zones.
I have the utmost respect for ALL that have served and currently serve in the military regardless of how, when or why they ended up in service. Re-introduction of conscription based upon the above would divert funding and expertise from places where it can be better put to use. The modern armed forces are not the place to socially condition youths with problems.
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Now I know why my Dad (27 years a regular) used to quote "old soldiers never die.....the young ones wish they would".
Maybe everyone did their best with the training they were given. Respect.
Drafting Guys Over 60
This is funny & obviously written by a Former Soldier... :-))
New Direction for any war: Send Service Vets over 60!
I am over 60 and the Armed Forces thinks I'm too old to track down
terrorists. You can't be older than 42 to join the military. They've got the
whole thing ass-backwards. Instead of sending 18-year olds off to fight,
they ought to take us old guys. You shouldn't be able to join a military
unit until you're at least 35. O0
For starters, researchers say 18-year-olds think about sex every 10 seconds.
Old guys only think about sex a couple of times a day, leaving us more than
28,000 additional seconds per day to concentrate on the enemy. <*<
Young guys haven't lived long enough to be cranky, and a cranky soldier is a
dangerous soldier. 'My back hurts! I can't sleep, I'm tired and hungry.' We
are impatient and maybe letting us kill some "xxxxx" that desperately
deserves it will make us feel better and shut us up for awhile. >>:-( <*<
An 18-year-old doesn't even like to get up before 10am. Old guys always get
up early to pee, so what the hell. Besides, like I said, I'm tired and can't
sleep and since I'm already up, I may as well be up killing some fanatical
son-of-a-bitch. :D
If captured we couldn't spill the beans because we'd forget where we put
them. In fact, name, rank, and serial number would be a real brainteaser. %)
Boot camp would be easier for old guys.. We're used to getting screamed and
yelled at and we're used to soft food. We've also developed an appreciation
for guns. We've been using them for years as an excuse to get out of the
house, away from the screaming and yelling. {-)
They could lighten up on the obstacle course however. I've been in combat
and never saw a single 20-foot wall with rope hanging over the side, nor did
I ever do any pushups after completing basic training. 8)
Actually, the running part is kind of a waste of energy, too. I've never
seen anyone outrun a bullet. {-)
An 18-year-old has the whole world ahead of him. He's still learning to
shave, to start a conversation with a pretty girl. He still hasn't figured
out that a baseball cap has a brim to shade his eyes, not the back of his
head. :-X
These are all great reasons to keep our kids at home to learn a little more
about life before sending them off into harm's way.
Let us old guys track down those dirty rotten coward terrorists. The last
thing an enemy would want to see is a couple million "xxxxx" off old farts
with attitudes and automatic weapons, who know that their best years are
already behind them.
HEY!! How about recruiting Women over 50...in menopause!!! You think MEN
have attitudes??
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh my God!!! If nothing else, put them on border patrol. They'll
have it secured the first night!
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That's it in nut shell.Brilliant Well done.I couldn't have said it better.Well not in so many words :-))
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that aircraft dumped in the sea could be the avro york that crashed in to dingle cliffs killing all on board just after the suez do