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[carlmt]

The model boating 'game' is changing!!!!

In the past we all bemoaned the lack of youngsters coming into the hobby - and that it was an 'old man's' pastime....... Now we have the problem that quite a few of the 'old men' (for want of a better expression) who make up the bulk of the manufacturing side of this 'cottage industry' are wanting to retire.  Where we were worried about who would come in and continue the hobby of building the models - we now need to worry about who will come in and take on the manufacturing!!!!!

Where is the hobby going????   Who is coming in to replace the 'old guard'?????

Carl

PS The thread about George Turner prompted these thoughts..........

[john s 2]

Most things change. It may well be in the future less people do model boating.Why worry? As long as your
happy. Younger people have far more to interest them and less interest in modelling.As regards model shops
and suppliers. Yes shops are going, mail order is taking over. As long as there is a demand someone will fill
it.Steam railways are finding the older generation who worked with   steam are retiring. The young folk lack
in the main knowledge. This is true of so many pastimes. I can see a retraction of many hobbies. What can
be done? Im not sure. Most younger lads want fast boats. Ill be interested to read other members views.
John. 

[dreadnought72]

...is assured. There's (almost*) no better time to be in modelling. 

We can go online, make purchases, and receive goods far more easily and quickly than ever before.

We have near-instant, free access to a vast range of information that would have astounded previous generations.

We can read of others' experiences and heed (or ignore!) reams of advice on forums like this.

There's better, more affordable and more accessible tools, adhesives, electronics, materials and equipment.

People are living longer and are generally fitter further into retirement - there's greater opportunities for more older people to be model-making.

What's not to love? 

Andy

*That said, I would like an affordable 3d printer. ...But it'll come.

[Patrick Henry]

We were chatting about something similar to this a couple of nights ago...the best part of the membership of the AMS is well over the hill now, at least three quarters of us are suffering from some type of long term illness, at least 60% of us are retired, and 20% are semi retired. The other 20% are still staggering along at work, for how long we don't know. We've had three new members this month....not one under the age of sixty.

There seems to be a link between either (a) having a long term illness or (b) being half way up the stairway to heaven, and building model submarines.

All the gurus of the model submarine hobby are now full time residents in the great sub workshop in the sky...it makes you wonder what will happen to the submarine side of the hobby in a few years time.

[Bryan Young]

I don't think that it's all doom and gloom. At Tynemouth we get people leaving and others joining. Common in most clubs I suppose. But the new joiners (not all) are "of an age". Winding down from "work" or recently retired, so giving time to spend on a hobby that was long cherished but timewise out of reach.
However, there is always a downside. And this time around I'm NOT going into kit versus scratch(!). New builders, for obvous reasons, do tend to buy a box with all the bits....meeting with a full range of emotions from total dissatisfaction to euphoria. After spending an awful lot of money on a kit that fails to come up to expectations I really can't be surprised that interest dies.
But on an upside, there are some enlightened people who produce superb hulls as "stand alone" items. I reckon that this is the way to go in the future. Especially as some of the ones I've seen are capable of being built to a different scale.
Although younger people do indeed tend to go for "speed", one has to ask how long that particular interest will last before moving on to another "hobby".
I return to my earlier comment, in that the "serious" side of the hobby will (as always) come from people with a bit of time, a bit of patience and a bit of money. BY.

[Subculture]

There seems to be a link between either (a) having a long term illness or (b) being half way up the stairway to heaven, and building model submarines.

I don't find this to be the case at the Dive-ins, we get many people who are a long way from retirement age.

It's important to get a range of ages in a hobby such as this, age brings experience and wisdom, but youth provides energy, enthusiasm and fresh ideas.

If you want to attract younger members into this side of the hobby, you have to make it fun, and you also have to educate them, because the schooling system doesn't work the way it did thirty years ago.

If existing members are unwilling or unable to do that, you face a downward spiral.

[carlmt]

I agree with the comments made so far...........however, my main concern is with the manufacturing and retail side of the hobby.  The internet has seen the death of most of the traditional model shops (with a few notable exceptions) and whilst we can praise the idea of getting almost anything we like from almost anywhere we want, sometimes it was especially helpful to pop down to the model shop just to get a few bits of wood or just for some advice (I know - advice is all around on forums such as these  ).

On the manufacturing side - I would say that over 75% of the market is covered by small cottage idustry concerns employing just a few persons or, as in the case of Model Slipway, is a family affair.  Just recently, I have heard on the jungle drums that a fair proportion of the current 'providers' are either scaling back or retiring altogether.  Now, I dont know if they have made provision to sell on their businesses or are just winding down to retirement.

I again cite Model Slipway in this - Over the years, they have produce a large range of excellent and afordable kits which have been popular with modellers all over the word. However, over the last year or so, a fair proportion of their range has gone out of production..... Will we see these subjects return in the future? Maybe under a different supplier?  I hope so........

If not, then the variety and choice (especially for those who prefer to build kits as opposed to scratch building) will get less and less as time goes on.....

Maybe I am being a little pessimistic.......but 'providers' like MS have sustained a large chunk of this hobby and unless others come into the field, we as modellers will be the poorer for their passing...........

Carl

[grasshopper]

Our local model shop has closed in Grantham - the clubs that exist don't have many younger members, mainly I have discovered because they don't advertise themselves in a positive way and encourage youth or newer members - Some modellers are concerned about being lumbered with looking after other peoples kids because the parents don't want to spend the time at the track, airfield, pond side whilst their child enjoys a new hobby. Some of the local clubs are so insular that the general population don't even know they exist!

In an attempt to redress the balance, I've opened a 'hobby store' in conjunction with the redundant manager from the previous store.
We've taken on two adjoining light industrial units, one for the shop and the other as a workshop / training / play room where we are hoping to hold classes and teaching days for local people to come in and be shown what the local clubs do on a 'show and tell' basis. We have access to tools and equipment that people could use (after instruction) rather than spend small fortunes on their own workshop - and will be able to offer storage for those that would prefer to work on models but don't have the space at home.

I think it's a positive step towards encouraging more people into our hobbies -  We've asked every modeller that's visited what they're into, which club, if any, they belong to and would they be interested in holding educational meetings that we would advertise in our local weekly newspaper - a few have said they would help and were glad of the opportunity, a few thought what a  waste of time...it would never make any difference.

We have a two year lease and in that time we hope to make a difference to the local hobby clubs, to encourage more people into a  pastime that has given us so much pleasure for so long

[Subculture]

Well kudos to you for having a go.

Perhaps you might consider choosing a couple of plans from the Vic Smeed stable. Hard chine construction was heavily favoured in a lot of his designs, which makes for rapid construction. Also a lot of his designs used eggbox style construction, so they're self jigging.

Perhaps you might consider getting some wooden kits water jet cut, that just leaves assembly and glueing to the constructor, and should cut down on the possibility of errors in construction.

[Colin Bishop]

There is no doubt that the age profile of boat modelling is changing, and not for the better. However, people are retiring from work and getting back into the hobby so there will probably be a healthy surge until we all die off! Some of the current businesses will pass into new hands, other will not but there does seem to be much more of a reliance on manufactured items, hulls, fitting etc. than there used to be. When I am in scratchbuilding mode. all I need is raw materials, not manufactured items which are convenient but hardly essential. Basic materials are still readily available. There is also the 'lost art' of using your imagination to employ 'stuff' to meet your modelling needs. On one of my older models, toy pistol caps do duty as fire buckets. It's surprising what you can use with a bit of thought and adaptation. The problem these days is that people just want to be able to buy things they can stick directly on their models. This is a relatively recent phenomenon yet it has become accepted practice.

Youngsters do like high performance RTR models as a means of getting instant kicks and fair enough but we old timers derive more satisfaction from more labour intensive methods which do the same job but probably much cheaper, albeit at the expense of a bit more time which, being retired, is readily available.

Colin

[andyn]

'old men' (for want of a better expression) who make up the bulk of the manufacturing side of this 'cottage industry' are wanting to retire.

There is no doubt that the age profile of boat modelling is changing, and not for the better.

Am I the exception that proves the rule then?

[Bee]

As Colin says above all these kits are a relatively recent development so it is perhaps just going to go back to what it was.
As for 'popping down to the model shop' seems like a statement from a townie. When I was a child it was wait for the once a school holiday trip to a big enough town to actually have a model shop (sort of), and that was when I was in GB. In Africa there wasn't a model shop in the entire country and probably only a handful in the entire continent. At least now there is the 'net.

[MikeA]

Im 25 and this has been a hobby i have wanted to do since i was at school. When i was a kid i asked a few times if i could have a model boat but my parents wouldnt get me one because its expensive, which is fair enough.  Its only been in recent years that i have accquired the skills and most of all the MONEY to do such a hobby. Im unemployed at the minute because ive been made redundant but that hasnt stopped me from moddeling because i rely on being resourceful. Speed boats are easy and fast to build but there not as impressive to look at as the subs and trawlers some of you more experienced moddelers build. Im sure in 30 years time our houses will be overwelmed by 6ft vessles just like yours are now and well be saying exactly the same thing. its not over yet!!

[brianB6]

I think that the fact that our hobby is still here points to the probability that it will remain. 
There has always been this discussion and probably always will.
There are ups and downs with most hobbies.   Ours in Oz. almost folded in the 80's when model cars became popular and I transferred to OO guage railways.   Now that I have taken it up again, I am amazed at the amount of kits and parts that are currently available and despite the complaints of some, the standard is far higher.
The hobby will change as its 'clientele' alters, but don't say it is dieing.

[Peter Fitness]

I can vaguely remember reading similar thoughts about the hobby dying way back in the 1960s, so I think the concern has always been there. As BrianB6 said, there have been ups and downs, but I am confident that model boating will continue in one form or another.

Peter.

[justboatonic]

Our local model shop has closed in Grantham - the clubs that exist don't have many younger members, mainly I have discovered because they don't advertise themselves in a positive way and encourage youth or newer members - Some modellers are concerned about being lumbered with looking after other peoples kids because the parents don't want to spend the time at the track, airfield, pond side whilst their child enjoys a new hobby. Some of the local clubs are so insular that the general population don't even know they exist!

In an attempt to redress the balance, I've opened a 'hobby store' in conjunction with the redundant manager from the previous store.
We've taken on two adjoining light industrial units, one for the shop and the other as a workshop / training / play room where we are hoping to hold classes and teaching days for local people to come in and be shown what the local clubs do on a 'show and tell' basis. We have access to tools and equipment that people could use (after instruction) rather than spend small fortunes on their own workshop - and will be able to offer storage for those that would prefer to work on models but don't have the space at home.

I think it's a positive step towards encouraging more people into our hobbies -  We've asked every modeller that's visited what they're into, which club, if any, they belong to and would they be interested in holding educational meetings that we would advertise in our local weekly newspaper - a few have said they would help and were glad of the opportunity, a few thought what a  waste of time...it would never make any difference.

We have a two year lease and in that time we hope to make a difference to the local hobby clubs, to encourage more people into a  pastime that has given us so much pleasure for so long

Well in, I wish you every success.

[RaaArtyGunner]

The answer is blowing in the wind, as the song says.

For example, look at the hobby since 1970 to the present, some may be too young, so look back as far as you can.

Also look at the articles in model boat magazines here and abroad.

There has been a distinct shift from scratch building everything to using kits. 

A few Plastic model ship makers, now make models, eg,"Italeri",  in scales that make conversion to RC possible.

Blow for blow descriptions in Mags are a way of the past, what is needed is up to date how to articles, and not reviews of over the top expensive priced kits/models that the average Joe cannot afford to buy.

It doesn't hurt to retell the obvious, such as how to install a motor, how to wire up a boat, installation of running gear etc, as what is obvious to you and I is not so to a newbie so encouragement is needed else the hobby will surely die,  as the way of the future is more plastic model ships, almost ready to run models and kit/semikits.

Look at the range of subjects and the success that this forum is, this is the 21st century

[MikeA]

If us young people want to know how to do something. We sign up to Model Boat Mayhem  The internet is the main source of information for people under 30.

[Spook]

If us young people want to know how to do something. We sign up to Model Boat Mayhem  The internet is the main source of information for people under 30.

...and over 50 

[g4yvm]

Carl,
you seem to be talking about the manufacturers of small parts (since you mention cottage industry), and this is probably true: the old cottage-industry makers will go.  BUT this will mean that modellers must become modellers again, and not just assemblers of kit or sub kit units.  It seems this has come full circle and we are where we started out a hundred years ago.

Mind you, those who have kept a weather eye on the development of 3D printing (as I have) are positively shaking with the the excitement of this technology.  It means I can copy ANYTHING I want to make!  Need a new hub?, Need a new figure? Need a new propeller master for a bronze casting? Copy it!!  I really am excited.


David

[carlmt]

Hi David,

It is not just the small parts (fittings) manufacturers in this country that I refer to as 'cottage industry' - a large proportion of the established kit manufacturers could be classed as such. I know of no kit manufacturer here on the scale of Graupner and the like......... They are nearly all family concerns with just a few employees - probably Fleetscale excepted (and they are just a small part of a much larger commercial manufacturing enterprise - the Fleetscale element seems to be a (profitable) sideline).

My concern is that I hope the choice and variety doesnt disappear from the market when these concerns decide to call it a day....

Carl

[Subculture]

3D printers will be a major factor in modelmaking in the future. However it does involve a different skill set- 3D modelling.

Google sketch-up is probably the easiest package out there, and crucially, it's freeware. It also runs on fairly modest hardware.

[Circlip]

When the recession really bites, whoever is left will have to take a serious look at their pricing policies as the "old school" won't have the cash to buy the sophisticated kits and the younger generation having slightly more of a concentration span of a goldfish (or ability to devote time to "Making things) will be left with the  existing RTR market.

 The cottage industries always rose and fell and were replaced with other ones if you look at the modelling publications over the last sixty years. The scratch builders (From plans) and the kit builders (From AeroKits etc.) were always around and I think the only RTR was the "Triang" or VIP offerings. Strange though that despite the quantity and quantity of "Scrap" we produce, more ingenuity (With the exception of Krishna) is lacking in todays modellers. Also strange that despite a dearth of Vac formed "Kits" of not long ago, that the masters must have been dumped not only by the cottage industries but also by the likes of Gropener. If they're still in existence, perhaps it's time to dust them down for a "Second coming" 

  Regards  Ian.

[cos918]

This Is the way i see it
Go to any big boat show. Most of the products for sale come from small uk  companys. The big europen companys Billings,Robbe,Graupner do sell items but not as much as the uk companys eg Deans,Model slip way , etc etc . While there is still intrest in the hobby these company will do well. Yes some will sell up or retire. Take Sirmar some one has just brought this company because he see a futher in it . I belive these company will carry on so long as they make profite so investers could buy the companys if they come up for sale. There are still areas in boat modeling not catered for.
Carl on this form is looking to bring a kit to the market. So there is the birth of a new model company.  The whole of modeling industry will evolve ,take the internet done a lot of good ,but industry had to change ie make websites and web shops  but this now means the whole world is there customer. Look at this forum ,there are people from all over the world .

John

[thelegos]

My dad was a practical man, we had little money and if it was possible things were mended not replaced, if we needed a kitchen cuboard he made it etc. etc. He was also a model maker, planes and boats. I'm 57 now but at the age of 10 he was building Keil Kraft planes with me, I learned how to do the basics that get you going, plus patience, the thrill of achievement and the joy of walking miles to try and find a free-flight model - or not  

I left it for years but I'm back again, via vintage Tamiya RC cars and more recently boats, I've built models with my son, he could saw, shape and build with wood at an early age and solder by the age of 9, he mends and makes all sorts of stuff although now his focus at 15 is playing guitar, that's brilliant, seven years of patience and acquired skill; he's playing as I type

Now my 11 year old daughter builds models and boats with me, acquiring the same skills, she sews and paints and sails her two small boats on a Sunday. She may well drift into other things as well but the skills and patience remain.

Message: spend time with and teach your children.

As for kit vs scratch. I've been guilty of 'buying and sticking' and only recently discovered the great satisfaction of making your own. My recently finished Aerokits Fireboat restoration used many original, repaired, recycled fittings but I had no choice but to manufacture the mast from soldered brass and some wood, the davit from plasticard and the deck cleats from plasticard, beads and brass rod. It took time but is one of the most satisfying pieces of modelling I've done for a long time.

Message: have a go, use you imagination, the knowledge on the forum and what's around you.

Our local model shop recently closed blaming online buying, I used them as much as possible but at times the service was poor and the stock low, it would sometimes take a couple of weeks for ordered parts to come in and I was lucky to ge a 'phone call letting me know. Some things I still buy from shops but have to drive a minimum of 40 miles to do so and save up a reasonable shopping list - popping down for a few bits of wood isn't going to support a business in the long term.

Message: that's just the way it is so support shops if possible and online UK suppliers!!

The hobby will survive but times have changed, I think it's down to us to work within the framework we now have and we will re-learn some dormant skills. Clubs must be active and welcoming, as we do now we must continue to help others not just our kids. This is a great hobby, all modelling is great and I won't be putting my tools away for a long time.

Roger