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Author Topic: K class steam submarines  (Read 8933 times)

raflaunches

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K class steam submarines
« on: January 13, 2012, 08:18:26 PM »

Hi everyone

I'm usually a warship or fast launch modeller but I really got interested in the concept of a steam powered sub before nuclear came along.
I have a deans marine hull of the early k class and the John Lambert plans enlarged to the 1/72 (technically 1/76) scale and bought two books on the subject (k boats by Don Evertt and K boat disaster by pen and sword).  However I have no clear pictures of the bridge superstructure and the upper deck shape, does any one have any clearer pictures than the pictures currently available on the Internet.
Help please!

Nick B
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Patrick Henry

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2012, 08:30:03 PM »

Somewhere I have some detailed drawings...give me a couple of days to find them. Remind me if I haven't contacted you by, say...Monday evening.


Rich
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Rottweiler

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2012, 08:37:06 PM »

they must have been the unluckiest class of submarine ever built  I seem to remember most of them had an unlucky end.hope your model fares better lol Mick
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bobk

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2012, 09:31:12 PM »

Nick B:   I too have that Deans hull, John Lambert Plans, plus a Caswell dive module that just fits into this long slender hull.  It is on hold at the mo’ whilst I finish my HMS Amazon of the same era, plus build up my modelling skills and learn a lot more about building working submarines.

Perhaps my Mayham thread of progress so far, plus helpful suggestions received, may of some help.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=29160.0


Above shows the hull and the kit of parts supplied by Caswell.  Dive planes and rudder are M Class, virtually the same.

I have gleaned just about every K Class photo available online, which you are welcome to. 
Perhaps we may be able to assist each other. 
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Subculture

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 09:50:40 PM »

A third of the eighteen built were sunk in accidents.

The later M-class which were based on K-class keels had an even worse safety record (in pecentage terms) two thirds of those sank with all hands!

None of these sinkings were a consequence of enemy action. Both classes of boats were really concepts which were ahead of their time, but where the technology was not advanced enough to make the boats reliable and safe.

Today's modern boats incorporate all the features of these early boats- high speed, steam power, the ability to hit land based targets and to launch small aircraft for surveillance. However in place of oil fired boilers we have nuclear power to generate steam, guided missiles instead of big guns and radio controlled drones in place of one man bi-planes.

Hopefully the submarine museum at Gosport can help with images, another port of call would be the National Martime Museum in Greenwich. Doesn't seem to be mcuh reference for these online unfortunately.

bobk

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2012, 10:23:33 PM »

There is a nice K model at Gosport  . . .

However, I am still trying to track down the awesome one that used to be in the IWM at Lambeth.  No luck so far!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2012, 10:30:22 PM »

Quote
However, I am still trying to track down the awesome one that used to be in the IWM at Lambeth.  No luck so far!

It is possible that it has been moved to Chatham into the new model storage facility intended to house the IWM and NMM reserve model collections.

Colin
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tobyker

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2012, 10:59:21 PM »

Note especially the"battle of May island" in the Firth of Forth when the leading submarines in the flotilla which had received the order to turn about were broadside on when they were rammed by the after guard who had not received the order. I wonder what the turning circle of a model will be.
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bobk

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 12:02:04 AM »

The originals were said to have "the turning circle of a battlecruiser and the navigation facilities of a picket boat".  Little chance of a mixer in this 2.5" diameter dive system, so it should look realistic.  they took 4 minutes to shut off and dive. 
Below is a sequence I captured from a video showing retrating the funnels.  I already have the linkages worked out.

By far the largest, fastest, and most heavily armed submarines of their day.  Sadly it took four decades and many lives lost before their potential could be realised.  Today huge 'steam driven' subs are arguably the deterent that makes all other capital warships obselete.  Instead of working with the fleet, as the K's were intended, SSBN's have largely replaced such fleets.
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raflaunches

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2012, 09:24:20 AM »

Hi everyone

Thanks for the replies so far, this particular class of sub obviously has more followers than I expected.

Bobk, I would be very grateful for any pictures you have and I'll look through my pictures to see if there are any you don't have.  Secondly, I looked through your thread this morning and would like to know if the caswell dive unit is the one used for the revell 1/72 gato class sub or a custom built one for yourself?

U33, I would also be very grateful for any detailed drawings of the k class, and I think Bobk might be interested too if he doesn't have them.

I am intending to build K3, the first K boat to be completed, my first idea was to build either K4 or K6 but I am a bit fed up building models of boats that suffered terrible fates (My HMS Coventry WW2 AA cruiser for example) and wanted something that survived for a while.
I can't remember which book it was described the K class as submersible destroyers because of their fire power and if they had been used correctly could had been devastating to any enemy vessel (seems to be a Royal Navy thing, like the battle cruisers they were used in the incorrect method for which they were not designed to do).

On a final note for the moment, the model from Lambeth is at Chatham museum but you need to book an appointment to view it, another silly idea which I believe was discussed in another thread on this forum.

Thanks so far...

Nick B
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Colin Bishop

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2012, 09:46:36 AM »

Quote
another silly idea which I believe was discussed in another thread on this forum.

Not really, there is simply insufficient space to display models for people on a 'turn up and look' basis. The real problem for us modelmakers is that maritime related museums seem to have gone off the idea of displaying models in their galleries and have packed most of them away into storage. Joe public doesn't find them interesting and prefers interactive displays apparently. The Chatham project is an effort to bring these models back into the public domain for thoise who need to see them but there are still logistical issues due to the sheer number of exhibits so don't knock it unless you think you could have done better.

I attended the formal opening of the Chatham No 1 Smithery and there were a lot of very committed people keen to facilitate access to the models which have until now been kept in storage.

Colin
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bobk

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2012, 11:04:04 AM »

Bobk, I would be very grateful for any pictures you have and I'll look through my pictures to see if there are any you don't have.  Secondly, I looked through your thread this morning and would like to know if the caswell dive unit is the one used for the revell 1/72 gato class sub or a custom built one for yourself?
Nick B

Nick:  If you send me a PM with your email address I would be happy to send you what photoes etc I have.  And yes, this is the Caswell Sub Diver developed for the Revel Gato, similar problem - long hull but very slender.  I built a simulated tube of the same size to check fit before ordering.  It does fit.  Just !
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Subculture

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2012, 12:01:59 PM »

If you want an agile boat, a k-class wouldn't exactly be my first choice. About 15:1 width to length ratio and a single rudder, even the modern missile boats improve on that.

If you want to mix the two screws to assist turning, you can get some very small dual controllers which have mixing built in, they use them for ant weight robotics amongst other things.

http://www.dimensionengineering.com/Sabertooth2X5.htm

Not cheap, but their stuff is pretty well made. How much will it help on a boat like a K-class though, I wonder? The two props are very close together.

You could extend rudder area and/or incorporate a bow thruster (will only work if the boat is stationary), or even try an additional bow mounted rudder.


raflaunches

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2012, 12:26:42 PM »

Hi everyone

Once again thanks for the replies so far, it's been very helpful.
I want to apologise to Colin Bishop for the misunderstanding I didn't have time on my last post to read through it properly.  I did not mean that it was a silly idea regarding the smithy at Chatham.  What I meant to say was that it silly to have all that space in the smithy but only have a few models available for viewing. I know exactly what you mean regarding the public not being interested in models anymore it just seems a shame to have that vast collection in storage, just wanted to apologise for the my typing skills when I am in a rush.

Bobk, I'll pm you shortly regarding the pictures etc.

Subculture, thanks for the advice I'll check the website you recommended.

Thank you

Nick B
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Colin Bishop

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2012, 12:40:30 PM »

No offence taken Nick. I'm hoping to do a follow up report for Model Boats later this year on facilities for viewing. We would all like to see more models on general display but then it would become a museum which was never the intention. I imagine thay have some sort of system whereby the models are stored close together to maximise use of the available space and they can then bring individual ones forward for viewing which is why an appointment is necessary.

When you think of all the models that used to be on display in the NMM and IWM and take into account the fact that even these were only a proportion of the total number held in the collections you begin to see the scale (sic) of the problem.

Colin
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raflaunches

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2012, 04:43:45 PM »

Hi everyone,

As you might have read in the CMB project thread in the warship section the prop shafts have arrived from Prop Shop after being rudely thrown through our letterbox yesterday morning by the postman!  Any way the shafts are okay and to the credit of prop shop's packaging survived the impact with the hall door!

The shafts are 18inches long and are 2mm in diameter with only 5inches being exposed.  Cut out the holes for the shafts last night making sure to get them level this time... (poor old Coventry  :embarrassed:).

I have cut the upper hull into three sections for ease of fitment and access, the forward section has already been attached to the lower hull and copious amounts of filler was used to blend it in.  After studying the plans I have discovered that the superstructure moulded in to the rear upper hull section is too long, wide and high, so I have cut the offending bits off and will fill them in later in the build.  I have tacked the port shaft in to place and waiting for the glue to dry before I start to fibreglass them in permanently.

















Regards,

Nick B
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bobk

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2012, 06:57:05 PM »

I shall be following your build with great interest Nick, as when I have completed my 1906 destroyer the K sub will be moved back onto the slipway.  I agree the hull does create a few challenges, like the top section fit and 1/76 "scale".  I too was intending to cut out and replace the aft superstructure for the same reason.  I will take tips based on how you do it.  I have a Caswell dive module for mine so need the full length of the upper hull to fit it in.  Best wishes for your build.   :-))
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Subculture

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2012, 10:47:03 AM »

You can consider a 'z-cut'. You don't see many boats with this style of hull break, but quite a few modellers do it in the states. The nice thing with this method, is that if keeps the bow in one piece, which hides the hull separation nicely.


raflaunches

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2012, 05:32:07 PM »

Bobk thanks for the continued support, I'll try my best to do the K class proud and provide pictures of the built as I progress.
Subculture that's an interesting method of separating the hull, something I would not have thought of.

For the moment I have decided to keep the hull intact and intend to complete the model as a surface runner, because like Bobk I would like to have retracting funnels if I made it dive able  and have smoke/steam poring from the funnels as it shows in the film footage on the Internet.
Once I have stuck the prop shafts in I intend to start building the 'Skeg' which supports the rudder post and the prop shaft A brackets.

Nick B
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Albion

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2012, 03:17:52 AM »

M1 U cut :-))




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Subculture

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2012, 07:55:43 AM »

That like a polyester cast hull. What happened to the epoxy glass hull that Dave was laying up?

Albion

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2012, 08:52:56 AM »

That like a polyester cast hull. What happened to the epoxy glass hull that Dave was laying up?
This was the original trial hull, that didn't come out as good as it could have been, was mine for a song, so hey ho




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bobk

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2012, 09:00:20 AM »

Nick:  I still intend to having retracting funnels, but not smoke as mine will be a static diver.
The hull split looks interesting, although ideally I would prefer to retain all control surfaces in the lower hull.  One of the challenges for subs is reducing the amount of dissasembly for battery charging, even switching on and off.  When it's all working the less you disturb the better.
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Subculture

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2012, 09:34:00 AM »

This was the original trial hull, that didn't come out as good as it could have been, was mine for a song, so hey ho

It's got all the makings of a nice model, just looked different to what I expected.

Regarding smoking stacks, there are the watter fogger devices. These tend to be a little chunky to fit in a model the size you're constructing, but perhaps they could be shrunk down. They use piezo transducers, which is fed with a fairly high frequency I believe, and that turns the water into a vapour that resembles smoke.

Albion

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Re: K class steam submarines
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2012, 10:29:40 AM »

Nick:  I still intend to having retracting funnels, but not smoke as mine will be a static diver.
The hull split looks interesting, although ideally I would prefer to retain all control surfaces in the lower hull.  One of the challenges for subs is reducing the amount of dissasembly for battery charging, even switching on and off.  When it's all working the less you disturb the better.

My forward vertical cut is just ahead of the bow planes, so either Z cut or U cut works and keeps all controls in lower hull
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