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Author Topic: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.  (Read 92567 times)

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #275 on: August 19, 2014, 10:46:51 am »

Well spotted Derek, and good question. One engine has brass eccentrics tother has stainless steel. At the time of turning them the intention was to make all from stainless but one piece of scrap grabbed in haste from donors bin was different from the rest in that it had a hidden hole between the forks and so was unusable. I thought I could put a brass strap on the stainless and a duralumin strap on the brass (as on tvr1a, which after three years shows no wear). What I had not realised was that the rod on the eccentric arm is soldered into the strap. I suppose I could weld a brass tube into duralumin (HP30) using what we call over here "Lumiweld" but doubt it would be possible on such a small scale. Technique is to mechanically clean both parts, assemble, heat until it will melt rod, run a puddle which seals off oxygen then scratch under the puddle with stainless steel scratcher lifting remaining oxides off pieces which float to the surface as dross then allowing to cool. All in all I'd be better off making two more out of stainless. Thing is there's no load on the valve piston to speak of so will probably get away with brass on brass. What do you think? Sorry, for my strap read your band.
Jerry.

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #276 on: August 19, 2014, 11:40:13 am »

Well spotted Derek, and good question. One engine has brass eccentrics tother has stainless steel. At the time of turning them the intention was to make all from stainless but one piece of scrap grabbed in haste from donors bin was different from the rest in that it had a hidden hole between the forks and so was unusable. I thought I could put a brass strap on the stainless and a duralumin strap on the brass (as on tvr1a, which after three years shows no wear). What I had not realised was that the rod on the eccentric arm is soldered into the strap. I suppose I could weld a brass tube into duralumin (HP30) using what we call over here "Lumiweld" but doubt it would be possible on such a small scale. Technique is to mechanically clean both parts, assemble, heat until it will melt rod, run a puddle which seals off oxygen then scratch under the puddle with stainless steel scratcher lifting remaining oxides off pieces which float to the surface as dross then allowing to cool. All in all I'd be better off making two more out of stainless. Thing is there's no load on the valve piston to speak of so will probably get away with brass on brass. What do you think? Sorry, for my strap read your band.
Jerry.

Jeery,
I wouldn't worry about brass on brass, there will be enough water and oil sloshing about to lubricate the eccentric and the sheave, if not a spot of oil now and again.

I read many reports of Brass on Brass binding, over the years I have made many engines and pumps, some have had Brass cylinders with Brass pistons fitted with Silicone "O" rings, some with eccentric and sheaves from Brass all made from whatever stock material that I have on hand and to date never had reports of any problems, remember it's toy engines that we build, not full size.

It seams a lot of trouble to weld/solder or what ever but of course it's up to you

George.
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derekwarner

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #277 on: August 19, 2014, 12:41:05 pm »

mmmmmmm...just thinking Jerry  ok2

Would not the simplest correction be to manufacture a [second] replacement eccentric in the nominated material as originally specified by John Moore [Bogs]?

Naturally I stand corrected......band = strap = sheave as noted by George.........

Derek
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Derek Warner

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Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #278 on: August 19, 2014, 02:23:42 pm »

Hi George, long time no hear. Just completed the Tour de Môn Canol = 75 miles of nothing but climb after climb after climb. I finished but the last 15 miles was just about survival really. Despite copious drafts of lucozade original mixed with dyalorite salts and jelly babies, cramps in thighs occurred from 60 on. Did manage the Flying mile in 2' 7" with 21 knot following wind knocking 33" off last year. It's the last year of team JCB cos the others are much better than me. Next year I'll just do the Bach but do it justice.
      Brass on brass it is then. Just awaiting some stock to do the cylinder blocks and I'm back on track.
Jerry.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #279 on: August 23, 2014, 07:22:26 pm »

Postie's been. At last some big brass. I put a piece in the four jaw chuck, (too big for three jaw). With lathe on minimum speed used hacksaw to cut blanks. Faced off one end, turned piece round and trimmed to length. Pieces were too large to be gripped in the milling vice so put it in vertically. Milled what I could reach until face was a little over 32mm. Now by putting the milled face against the vice bed it could be gripped securely. I managed to mill the opposite face in one go right at the limits of the travel. Turned the piece and removed the lug before finally milling to 18mm thick. Will do the other sides tomorrow after the Grand Prix.
Jerry.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #280 on: August 26, 2014, 09:52:44 pm »

I completed both blanks, dressed them up on the glass plate then put the first one in the mill and using the wheels to measure, found the centre then drilled and tapped all the 8BA holes on the bottom then drilled the cylinder bores in stages to 10mm.  Turned the part round and drilled and tapped the holes for the top covers.
     The Memsahib had a plastic rolling pin that was no use because it was bent so used one end to make a hone. Applied grinding paste to the hone and with lathe on slowest speed honed the bores until smooth. Gave all a good clean and then did the other block the same.
      Next job is to lap each piston until they just fit their respective bores.
Jerry. P

pettyofficernick

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #281 on: August 31, 2014, 09:28:40 am »

Going well Jerry, any reason for forming the cylinder blocks from the round? There is plenty of flats about that would have done the job.......
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #282 on: August 31, 2014, 01:39:18 pm »

I couldn't find any anywhere. Anyway I like swarf, it's like sawdust and I make a lot of that too. Pity we don't have a hamster anymore. I also, it would seem, like the word any!!
Jerry.

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #283 on: August 31, 2014, 04:27:26 pm »

Here is a good supplier of metal, 3" x 3" x 1", £12.50....    https://maccmodels.co.uk/materials-metal/brass-sections/brass-square/imperial-brass-squares.html   
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #284 on: August 31, 2014, 04:57:18 pm »

Thanks Nick, I saw that but very high price. I needed 1 1/2" diameter. I paid £23 for two 6" lengths
of 1 1/2" round so not so bad. Enough for four engines. It just goes against the grain to pay but my source of free stuff just didn't have any at the time I needed it.
Jerry.

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #285 on: August 31, 2014, 05:42:43 pm »

Going well Jerry, any reason for forming the cylinder blocks from the round? There is plenty of flats about that would have done the job.......

Nick,
He just likes making bedding for brass monkeys.
George
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #286 on: November 04, 2014, 05:16:19 pm »

Sorry guys, the project has been put on the back burner over the last few weeks. We have been all over Cheshire looking for a suitable marina to keep our major project/dream. We have long had a dream to spend our retirement cruising the canals and rivers during the spring and summer on a live-aboard narrowboat. We bought a 57' 2 year old boat on the river Nene at Rinstead. My nephew Ben and I had a superb delivery trip coming up the Nene to Northampton where we joined the Grand Union Canal. Up to Birmingham and onto the Birmingham main line then onto the Shropshire Union Canal to Tattenhall Marina, near Chester, where she will over winter while I get her ready for her new life. She is called "Angelica". We did 160 miles and around 180 locks in 9 days, working 11 hours a day. I hope to return to the Bogstandards soon.
Jerry.

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #287 on: November 04, 2014, 06:21:16 pm »

Angelica looks lovely Jerry.  Many happy hours of pub-crawling - er, sorry, cruising! ahead of you.   {-)

Looking forward to the next instalment on the engine build.  Have you settled on a hull for the engine yet?

Greg

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #288 on: November 10, 2014, 09:56:11 pm »

I haven't found the right hull yet. Everything I've seen is too narrow gutted for my plant.
I've done a bit more work on the engines. When I made the crossheads for the first engine I only had enough stock to make one blank for the second engine. I also made a Horlicks of one of the conrods. I've now finished all the crossheads and made another blank for the duff conrod, I spent all of this morning on it only to make a really stupid mistake by drilling the first 4mm hole in the wrong position. Instead of using half the diameter of my edge finder I used the diameter so there was not enough meat left in the blank to drill the little end. Doh!! So it's in the scrap bucket. I'm too tied up with the narrow boat I think. I've assembled the engine with the original duff rod (it's only a cosmetic fault so won't hold me up. Both engines are at the same stage now so it's on to the valve chests next.
I've got to go to the marina tomorrow to do an oil and filter change on the engine, change the fuel filters, replace all the plastic a/c sockets and switches for chrome ones, fit a Victron battery monitor and a TV antenna and weather station and a few odds and sods. Last time down I changed the engine anti freeze and the central heating Fernox anti freeze and inhibiter. So when that's all done we'll take her for a short trip as the wife's dying to take her out.
Jerry.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #289 on: November 19, 2014, 05:55:42 pm »

Back in the workshop at last after doing a lot of work on Angelica. Started on the steam chests today. I had no suitable stock so a quick trip up to Llanberis to my favourite machine shop produced a foot length of scrap 30mm brass round bar. Wish they had square stuff but beggars can't be choosers. Cut four 45mm lengths off it with a hacksaw then faced off each end to make four 40mm lengths. I used the carriage stop to make all exactly the same length. Tomorrow will set up the milling attachment and mill all to 40x18x16 mm blanks. I realised when re-reading the instructions that my 6mm hand reamer will not be of any use as I need a machine reamer to ream the 6mm blind hole. Ordered one from Tracy Tools which should be here tomorrow. Then lots of drilling.
Jerry.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #290 on: November 21, 2014, 07:37:24 pm »

Yesterday I faced off on end of each piece in the three jaw chuck. Then I reversed the pieces and faced off the other ends to 40mm length. Remove the three jaw chuck and mounted the large Jacobs chuck loaded with my largest milling tool. Set up the milling attachment and milled one side of each piece until I had a face 19 mm wide then rotated each piece in the vice keeping the same side on the fixed jaw and milled the other side of each piece until down to 16mm thickness. Remounted in the vice and milled curved side until I hade a 16mm side. Rotated each piece and milled other side to 18mm. So now I have 4four blanks 40x19x16 mm blanks. This took most of the day.
Jerry.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #291 on: November 21, 2014, 07:59:39 pm »

Today I started drilling. First operation is to drill the main 6mm passage up through the centre of each blank to a depth of 36mm from the datum face. I used an old, broken 1/4" mill shank to find the edge of a piece then advanced the mill 1/8" so NW the chuck axis is in line with the edge of the piece. I then advanced the mill 9mm to find the centre of the width. Repeated the operation to get the centre of the 8mm height. Used a 1/8" centre drill to start the hole then worked up with stub drills to 5.5 mm before finishing off the hole with a No. 1 drill to 36mm depth. After drilling the rest of the holes in the piece will finally use a 6mm machine reamer to 36mm.
Next I drilled the holes for the steam unions. I again found the edge of the datum face as before then found the centre of the union face before advancing the mill from the datum face to the position of each hole drilling and tapping as I worked my way along the face.
Tomorrow will complete the holes on the cylinder face, 2 steam holes and 4 bolt holes finishing by milling the steam slots. The reamer I ordered arrived this morning. They quoted me £13 but I forget the VAT every time so winced when with postage and vat it was £20. It looks a nice bit of kit though.
Jerry.

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #292 on: November 21, 2014, 10:37:17 pm »

Just love the way you mix mm and inches (and drill numbers)!   %% How do you advance 1/8" then advance 9mm, presumably using the same scale?  Please don't do a NASA on us and get confused about which you are using - apparently you can lose a very expensive spacecraft with such a simple error   %)

Greg

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #293 on: November 21, 2014, 10:58:03 pm »

Can do that one in my head. 1/8" =0.125   9mm = 0.357 less a midges.  I just use my digital calipers. The metric/imperial button does all the hard work. My only problem is I can (see) imperial whereas metric is just numbers in my head.
Jerry.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #294 on: November 26, 2014, 07:16:02 pm »

Since the last post I have completed the valve chests. I put each blank in the milling vice and as usual used the graduated wheels to navigate from hole to hole changing the drill size as appropriate. After drilling the last hole in the first blank I slackened the vice and removed the piece but left it on the drill. I put the next blank in the vice then adjusted the slide until the new block lined up with the first. This speeds things up a lot, saving me from having to "find" the edge of the datum face. I drilled all the holes in the second blank then repeated the change over trick. Repeated until all four blanks drilled.
Next I milled the steam slots as required. Finally I did the cosmetic milling on the top of each blank in way of the top union faces and then ran the machine reamer through the main 6mm spool chamber.
I superglued each chest onto the cylinder blocks then spotted through to transfer the centres of the bolt holes to the cylinder blocks. Then I drilled and tapped the bolt holes in the cylinders for 6BA.
The next bit takes a bit of explaining. Before making the valve spools it's imperative to know the exact distance between the top of the top steam port and the bottom of the bottom steam ports in each chest. I expected them all to be the same but as you will see, inaccuracies crept in.
The instruction say to put a good fitting 3mm rod through each port and to measure the maximum distance on each side of the chest. Taking the average of the two values gives the correct value inside the main 6mm hole.  As the table in the pic shows they were all a little different.  So each spool will have to have slightly different sizes to compensate. One size will not fit all! 
Tomorrow will start on the spools.
Jerry.

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #295 on: November 27, 2014, 01:23:35 pm »

Hi Jerry,
 
Your doing a geat job with that engine especially since you have limited facilities.
 
If I may advise you... it will pay you to lap the bores for the valves to get rid of any machining marks... this can be done using a length of nylon rod or even dowel rod turned down to a close fit in the machined bores... coat lightly with metal polish (Brasso or some such) and work it up and down the bores to produce a smooth even finish over the whole length of the bore.
 
Make the piston valves (spool valves) slightly tight in the lapped bores and then lap them in using the same metal polish... this will give you the best possible steam seal.
 
The slight differences in spool length will not prove to be much of an issue and the 19.1mm length will be fine... more important is the width of each spool... these must not be less than the port dia... a couple of thousandths greater would be perfect.
 
Take your time with these and all will be well.
 
PS... It was me who designed the valve gear for John's engine.
 
I look forward to seeing it running.
 
Best regard.
 
Sandy. :-))
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #296 on: November 27, 2014, 05:13:38 pm »

Thanks for that Sandy. Your post came in just after I'd finished them. I used some scrap 6 mm ground stainless steel to make them out of. It was a perfect sliding fit in the bores. I'd already lapped the bores but forgot to mention it in the post. I've got a faulty nylon rolling pin and made a lap out of that. I think I mentioned it when I lapped the cylinders.
I've made a start on the packing glands. All same piston rods but used some 8mm A/F hex to make the gland adjuster. Can't think why I didn't use it for the piston rods. Making the spools was easier than writing about it. I made each one to the measured length of each chest. They are lovely sliding fit and cover the holes perfectly.
Jerry.

Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #297 on: November 28, 2014, 06:48:17 pm »

That's the glands finished. A little adjustment required according to the pic. Cover plates to do but what about plugging the steam holes instead, after setting the timing? Any thoughts?
Jerry.

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #298 on: November 29, 2014, 12:40:54 pm »

Hi Jerry,
 
They look fine... well done.
 
I would be inclined not to just plug the holes... make the covers  O0 .
 
Plugging would make any future valve timing adjustment extremely tricky, especially with a blind valve bore.
I suppose you could tap the holes on the outside and fit blanking screws but I think proper covers would look much more professional and probably would not take much longer to make than proper blanking screws.
 
Nearly there.
 
Keep happy.
 
Sandy. :-))
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Jerry C

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Re: Jerry C does some turning & milling and builds a new steam plant.
« Reply #299 on: December 04, 2014, 05:19:19 pm »

Thanks Sandy, will take your advice and make some cover plates.
On Monday I started on the eccentric straps. I only had 30mm brass round to make them out of so parted off 8 off 6mm discs then made a spacer to set them square in the three jaw chuck before facing them off to 4mm thick. Shipped the milling attachment and milled a set of blanks. Using my angle plate as a guide I lapped the mating surfaces on the lapping plate. Next I drilled and tapped the clamping bolt holes in the upper blanks 8BA. Then I drilled the clearance holes in the lower blanks. De-burred the holes and bolted each set together. Lapped all the sides and edges until all sets the same size.
Set up one set in the mill and drilled the 14mm hole with a metric Aldi step drill. It does a lovely job leaving a very fine surface. Leaving the set in the milling vise, I rotated the mill through 90° and drilled the 3mm x4mm deep con rod hole then raised the vise and drilled the double diameter oiling hole. Repeated the process on the remaining three sets.
Finally I clamped my 45° gauge to the sanding station as a guide and free cut the cosmetic  chamfers on the shoulders. A quick lap to remove any tool marks and this section was complete.
I found making these eccentric straps the most taxing job so far. It took me 4 days to make them.
Jerry.
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