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Author Topic: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?  (Read 9774 times)

C-3PO

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3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« on: September 29, 2016, 02:31:02 pm »

With the quality, accessibility and affordability of 3D printers getting better all the time I wonder if the future of kits will be buying the "design files" from a supplier, the model to be printed at home rather than buying a box of bits?

C-3PO
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Charlie

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2016, 03:52:19 pm »

That is an interesting question. It could be the future, but the whole 3D process will have to become a bit more user friendly before that happens, IMHO.

Colin Bishop

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2016, 04:10:34 pm »

How would you print out a wooden Aerokit?
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Netleyned

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2016, 04:19:35 pm »

How would you print out a wooden Aerokit?


You woodent O0


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Martin (Admin)

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2016, 04:58:18 pm »


Actually, these is available a printing fulfillment that looks a bit like wood! ...... to a man on a galloping horse.... from a bit of a distance!!







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C-3PO

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2016, 05:26:47 pm »

How would you print out a wooden Aerokit?

Colin - Why ask a question that you know the answer to?

Nothing stopping you 3D printing in "plastic" the Sea Queen or Sea Commander if you have the design files which is my debating point about the future....

Another way of looking at this -  if the down turn in modelling continues then some kit suppliers will be a thing of the past - sadly a likely outcome and maybe this is an avenue to allow the modeller access to a range of models otherwise unavailable. Not going to get into the scratch building debate but reading between the lines at best the future will mainly be modellers who assemble things at best rather than start with a blank canvas

C-3PO


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Colin Bishop

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2016, 07:16:31 pm »

You appear to be presupposing that possession of a 3D printer will become the norm which I doubt is likely in the near future. Kits today are usually composed of a range of materials and not all components will lend themselves to being rendered in plastic. In any case, surely it would make more sense for the manufacturers to invest in the machines to use them to best advantage. I can envisage 3D printing being used to make a lot of the fittings currently cast in white metal although there would need to be a much faster production rates on the part of the printers.

As for modelling in the future being assembling things at best, well you might just as well buy a box of Lego!  I do think that people who do modelling as a hobby enjoy the fact that they are making items themselves, stretching a point then maybe designing components which can be printed out for those who prefer sitting in front of a computer to burying themselves in their sheds.

Colin
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C-3PO

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2016, 08:11:01 pm »

The near future could be as early as tomorrow, next week, next year and I did not refer to the near future, but the future (open ended)

My main point of the post was wondering if the concept of "buying the design" to 3D print at home is what the future may hold, not exclusively but an option available to the modeller.

I do believe that 3D printers will be very common place in modellers houses in the future.

With regards to assembly my comments were general (not saying 100% of modellers fall into that mould at all) and picked up a little on the recent scratch build discussion, maybe I read between the wrong lines and got the gist of the thread comments wrong - please accept my apologies! For sure the "younger generation" - the modellers of the future - seem to be less skilled in "knowing which end of a paint brush to hold" and this will be one of the many factors that affect our hobby

C-3PO
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carlmt

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2016, 09:02:45 pm »

I agree that in the future 3D printers or other types of replicators may become as common as washing machines around the home - but that time is a little way off yet I think.
For today, I find them useful for producing the parts I cannot make by hand myself.
 
An example - not related to modelling : I replaced the chrome trim on the boot edge of my Daimler.  However, it was held to the bodywork of the car by plastic clips which, after nearly 30 years, had gone brittle.  No way could I make 6 of these clips by hand, but I could draw them in 3D, send the file to Shapeways and, for a couple of quid, I had 6 brand new, replicated, clips.  Obviously, they were no longer available from Jaguar otherwise I would have bought them off the shelf.  I really think that this could be the route of home 3D printers - to replicate parts and 'things' for the home.....but as said, a little way off being commonplace yet.
 
Carl

Colin Bishop

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2016, 09:16:52 pm »

Very ingenious Carl and definitely a win win but you used your skills to draw them in 3D which is not something most of us possess. Something like a 3D printer is a centrepiece of many other skills and techniques which enable it to deliver the desired output.

At the moment home 3D printers would seem to be limited to using meltable plastic. Extending them to metal and other engineering materials would seem to be a long way away at the moment although I stand to be corrected.

Colin
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tsenecal

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2016, 09:27:47 pm »

Very ingenious Carl and definitely a win win but you used your skills to draw them in 3D which is not something most of us possess. Something like a 3D printer is a centrepiece of many other skills and techniques which enable it to deliver the desired output.

At the moment home 3D printers would seem to be limited to using meltable plastic. Extending them to metal and other engineering materials would seem to be a long way away at the moment although I stand to be corrected.

Colin




the ability to design and build something is a skill.  learned by practice.  regardless of whether it is with a mouse sitting at a computer & a 3d printer or a CNC driven mill, or with a pencil, a piece of paper, a knife and a block of wood sitting in a workshop.


as to the different types of filament, things have exploded in the last few months, with several being more advanced plastics, wood, metals and conductive materials


https://all3dp.com/best-3d-printer-filament-types-pla-abs-pet-exotic-wood-metal/
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grendel

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2016, 09:43:27 pm »

yes but they can be extruded in wax, and then cast into metal using the lost wax casting process.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2016, 09:48:21 pm »

Yes, I agree it is all very impressive and I have no doubt that a lot of people will make the most of and develop these processes. Modellers have always embraced new technology. It's just that I wonder how many will do so. Photo etching has been around for a quarter of a century or so but how many modellers actually design and make their own components as opposed to raiding the Scale Link catalogue?

Colin
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carlmt

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2016, 10:07:31 pm »

For the really exotic, Shapeways will print almost any design you upload in PLATINUM.
 
Mind you, it will cost you a fair bit!!!!!  I just recently drew up a pair of ship's wheels - 25mm dia - and to print them in platinum would cost.....................£625  :o :o :o
 
Many other materials are available including stainless steel, brass and gold.

Colin Bishop

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2016, 10:14:55 pm »

Cufflinks Carl?  :-)

Colin
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carlmt

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2016, 10:30:02 pm »

Now there's a thought............. :-))

Colin Bishop

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2016, 10:31:24 pm »

Well, I didn't like to suggest earrings.....

Colin
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Capt Podge

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2016, 10:47:04 pm »

Cufflinks Carl?  :-)

Colin

Speaking of which:

Regards,

Ray.
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dreadnought72

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2016, 08:17:57 am »

Over in the real boat building world, there's a need for extremely high-quality marine ply which contains no voids, no knots, and is glued to boil-proof standards. The sort of stuff your Big Box DIY stores do not sell - not least because of the price tag and (their presumed) lack of a market. Think '£200 per full sheet at 9mm'.  :o


I can certainly see a market for a future lignin-based 'composite' printed material that is 100% wood: that looks, smells and works like ply, made from any quality wood source (offcuts, waste, young growth) and - with the ability to lay the laminations thinner, and in any direction - we could be on the verge of a new 'wood age' for boats, furniture and what-have-you.


Andy
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oldflyer2

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2016, 11:21:27 pm »

Interesting question to be sure.

I bought a printer a few months ago and I am quite happy with it. After putting 2 kg's of filament through it (approx 200 hrs of print time ) and printed several items for friends, the novelty is wearing off. I now have 3 complete "kits" printed from files available on Thingyverse. I will now assemble them, making some of the extra parts (bearings and nuts, bolts, etc. ) on the mill and lathe. One of these projects is an r/c excavator that will work.

I have been asked what my thoughts are on these machines. Well, they have an awful long way to go before they will be a household word methinks. The big drawback for quite a few folks in my age group (I joined the Canadian Air Force in 1964) is the fact that a bunch are not very computer literate beyond an email, and some don't even do that. I am learning 3d drawing and have had a success or two, but I could have gone to the lathe or mill and made the parts in a quarter of the time it took to draw them. They did, however, print quite well and did what they were supposed to do so I was chuffed about that.

Also, the quality required for some items can require very long printing times. The tracks for the excavator (66) took almost 18 hours in total to print. A 6" tall Tardis, done for a mate, took nearly 22 hours in order to get the detail.

Most machines seem to be getting quite reliable, including the kits if they are constructed properly. The most problems I have read about seem to come about from trying to use material not meant for the job, or hacking the software, or just hacking the machine to make it better.

All in all, the machines are still in relatively short supply. The knowledge needed to use them is still held by a relative few people, that must be said, most are more than willing to share.

Am I glad I have one? Yes. Would I buy it over again? Yes. Is it the bees knees for everything model related? Absolutely not! In some cases, so much after print work would need doing to get a decent surface, you might as well build the part from plastic or metal.

All the above is just my opinion and it is worth what was paid for it.

Tom
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C-3PO

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2016, 09:14:51 am »

Tom , fascinating and insightful information.

It will be very interesting to see how 3D printers evolve.

I do wonder what the capability of  "print at home 3D" will be in the next 5 - 10 years - time will tell....

Regards
C-3PO
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oldflyer2

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2016, 12:53:11 pm »

C-3PO, if we were to look at this question again in 5 years, I think we would be amazed at the quality of both the machines and the prints they are making.

My machine was an almost assembled one ... I had to put 2 large pieces together, put in 6 bolts and tighten, and plug in 3 wire harnesses. It took about 10 minutes to figure out the leveling process and how to get filament loaded, and that was it. There was one wire harness damaged in transport. The supplier looked at the pic I sent him and told me to separate the strands of the harness and try the machine. I did that and it worked ... That was Friday afternoon. On Monday morning, a new cable was delivered to me ... from the other side of Canada. I am in Ontario and I bought the machine from a shop in Calgary, Alberta.

A large number of these machines are made by only a few manufacturers. My machine can be had under several different names around the world. The quality of the parts is surprisingly good, but all the parts are out there to beef almost any machine up. For around $200.00 Canadian dollars, I can buy a middle of the road or better, electronics package that includes the stepper motors and controllers, Arduino or other controller, all required wires etc. and all I need to add is the frame work. If done correctly, one can end up with a $2000.00 or so machine. Again, all that faffing about is only for a small number of hobbyists

One thing that I did, and would very highly recommend, is to buy the machine from a supplier in your own country. I have read many threads by people that bought a machine from one of the big online guys and had major problems getting the machine working. They all got their money back OK, no problem from that point, but they had to go through hoops and hurdles to do it and they didn't end up with a working machine.

As mentioned, my supplier is on the other side of the country, but emails are answered almost instantly, problems are solved right away, and in one case, I ordered some supplies from their website, and received an email to say that they wouldn't sell me the goods as they wouldn't work in my machine. If I need it, they are by the phone as well.

Buying local (or in country) has one drawback in that the goods are more expensive than online. My machine in the USA can be had for around the $400.00 us mark. Here, in Canada it is just over $600.00 can dollars. I found a couple of them on line for just over $300.00us. These machines are typically around $100 to ship if free shipping is not offered.

Now, most commercials you see for a 3d printer will show someone pressing a button, and the machine starts to buzz and whir and away it goes. True ... yes and no.

Yes, if all you want is average quality prints. If better quality is required, then there are some tests to do, measuring, recording, doing the math, and making adjustments. There are many adjustments that can be made in just the software on these machines. All of these settings make a difference. Remember, we are using a cnc machine here ... it is just piling material up instead of cutting it down. If done right, these tests and checks need to be done for each color, and roll of filament. Admittedly, once all the major adjustments are done, a quick, 5 minute or so print will tell you if the settings are right and at that point, you would know how to solve the problem anyway.

So, that is some of the ins and outs of the thing. I do have to say that it is most rewarding to have an idea, draw it up, print it, and use the part, all in a short space of time.

Cheers

Tom
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oldflyer2

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2016, 01:03:19 pm »

I guess you could call some of the projects currently available on places like Thingverse "kits". I am currently working on one of these ... http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:50110.

Almost all of the required parts are there and the amount of after print finishing is up to the individual. Beware though, some of the projects are not printable due to drawing problems.

If you are really ambitious you could have a go at one of these ... http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:259005

Tom
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: 3D Print at home - the future of model kits?
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2016, 01:10:39 pm »

One of our members has expressed an interest in buying a 3D printer. I have informed him that, at present, he is unable to pick up the mouse, put it to his lips and say.."4" Twin AA Turret, 1/60 scale, 3 off." He may wait until this capability is incorporated in the next gen versions :-)
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