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Author Topic: The Art of Models Irene  (Read 30335 times)

hammer

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The Art of Models Irene
« on: December 20, 2016, 03:12:33 PM »

If I paint a picture of a ketch I am an artist. But building a model I am a craftsman. This seems the general point of view. I suppose if just following a plan it could be so, but given that plan to different modellers they will produce different results. So I think ART as it is much easier to paint a picture than build a model.
I am posting in sail because my method of building the Irene of Bridgwater will continue here. I like to build subjects that mean something to me, in this case I was born in Bridgwater. In the past I have made Flying Foam topsail schooner & Crowpill steam collier  both registered in Bridgwater, Albatross a sailing trawler built Teignmouth where I have retired. Two paddle steamers Glen Usk as I sailed on her when 10 years old, the Duke of Devonshire, a frequent visitor to Teignmouth pier many moons ago. No plans available for any of the above.  Also 2 pilot cutters they don't count being from plans.
Back to Irene she still exist having had Bridgewater added to her original name, much altered from original.  Launched in 1907 is how I want to portray her delivering bricks & tiles, bringing back coal, her main occupation.
 To start trawl the internet, visit Bridgwater Museum, library & any where I can think of may contain information. Lloyds of London but not this time as I have dimensions as she still exist, but will visit her or book a cruise.     
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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2016, 05:14:30 PM »

Well 74 members don't disagree with me.
After my searches I am undecided do I build as working, or as restored? Obviously accurate  information  available for the present ship. But the main reason on the early ship the one prop has a cut out in the rudder & through the stern post. Where as now twin props one ether side. The problem ships of this type benefit from external ballast. I don't like lumps of lead hanging off the bottom. on my Flying Foam part of the keel made of lead, 2 rods ran up through tubes, the top of the tubes connected by a lose chain. In the stand the lead pressed up in place, remove the hatch, lift the boat by the chain, lead still in place. launch, release the chain lead drops down. And no one knows. In the albatross a 1/8 steel plate with the centre removed, filled with lead dropped down as a centre plate. Operated with a sail winch in the water, no one knows. The centre plate is best as it reduces leeway. So the single prop will get in the way. Photo shows centre plate down about one quarter of drop.
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captain bligh

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2016, 05:48:35 PM »

Hi hammer
We normally do an exercise with the Irene  with the lifeboat when she calls in to us for a few days.
But this year we was all invited down on board for a big cooked breakfast and very nice it was to  :-)) :-))
Mike
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derekwarner

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2016, 09:24:29 PM »

Morning RGY........great to see your text  ok2.......

The one thing that strikes me as difficult to understand is the angle of the propeller shaft to the axis >>:-(....the angle between both shafts is ''acute'', but how the shafts align internally is the question

Could they be driven by a splitter box with a very physically close output each through a universal to a single engine?  >>:-(

I read your note in the other thread thankyou.....my very best to you for the Festive season............. Derek

 
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Derek Warner

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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2016, 11:23:26 AM »

Captain Bligh thanks for the reply, I think she is in Plymouth at present. I will have to find out exactly where.
Derek, well observed  as always but no she has 2 Gardener diesels engines. The angel is more upwards than inwards. This photo at different angle shows it better. 
Found a lot of information already. Bridgwater Museum yesterday, on the net day before. Breath 20.98ft that's 21 in my book, length is questionable, 100ft, 85ft, quoted but over what? eventually found 83ft at water line. I have a photo taken square onto & at water level, This will be scanned into my drawing program on layer1 on layer2 draw over the photo, remove layer1 & I have the elevation. Now I need a body plan look through my library to find a fit. I have 3 books on old sail with small drawings, also when ever I get a public library book I scan it into my computer. Copy right? Now all these are very small, so enlarge on computer, problem the lines are enlarged also. So I enlarge until lines about 1/8th wide print, trace in the centre of line, repeat until sections correspond to the with of the model. Usually only twice. The spacing of frames usually equal 10 plus half stations at each end but not always.  Once I have built the hull all other drawing will be done on the hull. The elevation is not at the scale of the model , a double  sided scale rule made, red side for elevation black for model.         
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derekwarner

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2016, 10:42:39 PM »

As RGY notes..... %)

'Back to Irene she still exist having had Bridgewater added to her original name, much altered from original.  Launched in 1907'

'length is questionable, 100ft, 85ft, quoted but over what? eventually found 83ft at water line'

We must remember that reliable/accurate wind up tape measures as we know them today were not invented until the early 1900's  ;)

Before that, many...many inaccurate nominations of length or distance were made measuring devices of the day

Shipwrights in the 1800's used rolls of finely woven cotton string carefully marked with 1ft graduations.......goodness knows how tighter pull would have been required to take up the slack & get out the sag  {-) at about 100ft away...and what mark was recorded?  :-X

Derek
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Derek Warner

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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2016, 10:47:19 AM »

Derek, It seems some can't measure now ether. Went to pub Christmas eve saw a mate who had a plan of Irene for me. (more drawing really). Can get lucky now & then. He was the one who told me 83ft at water line. That is what it says on the plan, got it home and measured with the scale no the bottom, it measures 85ft at water line. So I am going with 85, won't make much difference when I decide on the scale. Having worked in the construction industry I am used to working from small plans, compared to the finished item, although the always had DO NOT SALE printed on them.   So will not need my drawing around the photo which matches very well considering. In my library have Schooner Sunset by Douglas Bennett. Found a very similar ship Snowflake, same beam, flat bottom, plenty of sheer and only 4ft longer than Irene. I will print all the photos I have of Irene pin them on the workshop wall along side the drawings. I will be ready to start work when I get back from holiday mid Jan, after I have done a lot of thinking. Scale, materials construction and Irene or Irene of Bridgwater???   
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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2016, 10:50:19 AM »

You will notice the sections aren't spaced equally, as mentioned earlier. Probably taken off from the ship after.
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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2016, 10:50:16 AM »

On Marine Traffic, see Irene is in Santa Cruz, Tenerife. Hope she is still there when I get there next week.
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captain bligh

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2016, 11:28:15 AM »

She was leaving for there when we had breakfast aboard of her calling into Vigo Spain on route to drop off the owner I beleave.
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derekwarner

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2016, 10:32:51 PM »

RGY....keep us posted when you return...."I will be ready to start work when I get back from holiday mid Jan"

Enjoy your holiday %)....where are you off to? :o....... Derek
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Derek Warner

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2016, 05:13:01 PM »

  • Derek, in Tenerefe on the 10th same day as Irene. hope I can get to see her.  Going to Madera first, then around Carnegie islands, Moroco Spain Portugal home 19t
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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2017, 10:47:13 AM »

I found Irene in Santa Cruse, took a load of photos of details. That was a coincidence as I hadn't thought about modelling Irene when I booked the cruise in October, luck plays a big part in research.
I did a lot of thinking laying in the sun, here is the results. Having built 2 pilot cutters & a sailing trawler which sailed well with internal ballast only, but the trading schooner needed external ballast. As in the photo above the trawler had a centre plate & an expanding rudder. The drop plate operated by a sail winch with a sewing machine bobbin. Rudder expanded by normal servo & Bowden cable. Irene will be smaller so not enough room for extra servos.   
The answer, a carrying handle up through the hatch will hold the drop keel up when lifted of the stand. In the water the keel will drop pulling the expiation for the rudder down. This will simulate the shape of the cutters.  Sorry the fag packet drawing is not very clear.  Any questions ?   
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derekwarner

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2017, 11:49:28 AM »

Well RJY....apart from sitting in the sun for too long  %) what else have you been getting up to?

The mudmap appears OK.......

1. it could be R/C controlled latching self lowering, then with the same R/C servo winch hoisting under power only
2. may need some side [P&S] lateral support, otherwise a very high loading could occur at the main lowering pivot pin toward amid ships......

Derek
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Derek Warner

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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2017, 03:10:42 PM »

Had a few ciders, climbed a mountain, a day in the Moroccan desert in a 4+4, Tour of the ships non public areas, & other boring things.
 I try to keep this a secret but attached is my trawler being rescued after sinking. The drop keel box split at the pivot point. I wont let it happen again. In mitigation she had sailed for 2 years before with out trouble. It was a very windy day, only scale boat stupid enough to sail. All repaired.     
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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2017, 11:47:02 AM »

Marked up the slipway. Painted silver to obliterate marks from previous builds.  Centre line for keel, position of frames, shape of stem and shape of counter stern at deck level. also in the picture the scale rule, red side up for plan.
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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2017, 10:48:40 AM »

Cut the card patterns for the frames, stick them to ply with contact adhesive, so they don't stretch. Before I cut them out I have to make the drop keel & its box, as the model will be built on this. Looking in my store found the brass plate & 3/8 square steel. Change of plan no lead use the steel to make it stronger. (Derek) Unfortunately my mill is out of commission, have to cut a slot with an angle grinder. Or do other things, like clear the bench.
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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2017, 02:41:12 PM »

Still not decided how to finish model, "Irene" working or "Irene of Bridgwater" cruising. If "Irene" I have stopped the brass part of the drop keel at frame 8. This will give room for a reduction gear moving the motor sideways & down. Note in this photo brass bearing for connecting to rudder. The keel box can be higher containing more plate, this can stay inside, helping with support. Also shown the pivot, the short piece fits between frames 1&2. The pin stainless steel threaded 1/4+40 one side. Brass not soldered to steel yet.
 If Irene as now I will only have one working propeller, other side shown folded.
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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2017, 04:41:58 PM »

 Brass plate fixed to keel. Keel box sides made, just need a coat of resin before joining. Stem & rudder post done, (sorry not clear in the photo) both made from 3 layers the middle layer protruding inwards to form a rebate to take the planning.
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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2017, 02:56:52 PM »

Saturday, resin to inside of keel box & etching primer to the keel. Sunday pit crew for son motorcycle racing. Monday cut out frames, fixed keel to the slipway, and started to frame up the hull. Plum up the stem & stern post with squares. The frames notched over the keel box and a plank central just below deck level. Frames aliened to marks on the slipway. the keel box is fitted the thickness of the planking so they fit under later. Hammer aka R.G.Y.
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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2017, 09:30:31 PM »

All framed up. I know some of you are looking, can you see my mistake?
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derekwarner

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2017, 11:05:24 PM »

Well we are certainly watching RGY........ "can you see my mistake?"

not really sure what we are looking for  %)

1. you have left the little screw top lid off the yellow paint bottle  {-)
2. is the alignment of the 4th frame from the bow a little out or is this a parallex type error? ;)
3. the rise of fall of the stem & stern to midships a little low compared to your earlier sketch and drawing? :-X

Keep us posted with the build.....

Derek
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Derek Warner

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2017, 09:40:04 AM »

I knew I could rely on you Derek, but you are wrong. I am happy with the structure, frames are all aligned ok, and the sheer looks flatter as photo looking down.  I have measured the stem to the deck height only. Needs to be up under the bowsprit. Not the end of the world.
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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2017, 03:24:33 PM »

Marking the sub deck, using frame measurements. Had to cut out centre as the camber & shear wouldn't bend in one. I also need to resin inside later. Because I always use second hand materials if possible, the quality is suspect.
   A better view of the shear, it also shows number 6 frame is a little high. Will run a saw through the joint once or twice & sand down the exposed portion.
   Removed the drop keel, now resting on a pillow, so she can be place in any position. Now have to tidy up the edges with a dermal sanding disk. Install the servos & motor with prop shaft. So now is decision time, do I go "Irene" 1930s or 2017.  If built 2017 and I get something wrong I am sure to be told about it. But I do have plenty of information, and she looks prettier .    If 1930 I will have to guestimate a few things but who will know.  Help! Last photo shows "Irene" in Combwich pill with the brick yard in the vary back ground.Help!
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hammer

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Re: The Art of Models Irene
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2017, 03:11:10 PM »

Worked out where things are going, fixed the 2 sail arm servo.  Decided to go for the old Irene, so motor will be as shown. The only thing I don't know is, there is usually a water tank on deck, but I can't see one yet. The deck house was the problem from my photos it looked far to long. The reason it contains the wheel house, most unusual. The other deck house contains a motor winch, also the galley I am thinking.   
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