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Author Topic: A Greek BIREME  (Read 23382 times)

Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: a Greek BIREME
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2017, 10:16:57 am »

Don't forget 'Greek Fire' would be classed as a weapon of mass destruction!



Good point Tony.

These  'ships' were certainly playing rough.   :-))

ken

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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: a Greek BIREME
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2017, 10:21:24 am »

Thanks for  'heads up'  on the article in Model Boats mag,  John.    I shall get this immediately,  unless Colin can come up with a cheaper version.     :}     :}   (soon)

ken
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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: a Greek BIREME
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2017, 10:27:23 am »


Martin, I enjoyed the Oars production and have gone back to them to finish them off.   I found the blades were  tooo   wide,  so set up the band saw to trim them off a bit and feather the edges.

The second boat is now framed up to  'one and a half times'  as large and seems to be about the right size to encompass all the motors and gadgets that will be needed to drive her along.

I can't stay here too long as I've got things to do.      {-)

ken



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John W E

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Re: a Greek BIREME
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2017, 10:35:00 am »

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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2017, 10:41:12 am »


Morning John,

My secret is out .    %)     I have followed this guy with his Bireme build and it is what has stirred me into action.  I was inspired by his carpentry and skills and will not to copy his work in detail,  but use the information learnt to assist me in my build with my own designs.

Cheers

ken
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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2017, 10:51:38 am »


I have just bought the magazine John.   Thank you again for pointing it out.

More  'secrets'  to learn.     ;)    You can never get enough information when surveying a subject.

cheers

ken
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steve pickstock

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2017, 08:17:15 pm »

You're probably aware of the Hellenic navy's Olympias - a trireme built initially as an experiment and documented by the BBC in the film Trireme Quest. Useful detail in the movement oof the oars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INGl8LB9Zxo
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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2017, 08:43:48 pm »


Thank you for that Steve.  I had not seen it before and found myself drifting off through the  Triremes section.

Real ships rowed by real people.  It looks very hard work being below decks.   :-))

Today I glued in the 11 ribs and larger shape is appearing.  Pictures to follow.

ken

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ballastanksian

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2017, 08:46:53 pm »

Crikey, at this rate Ken. you will have a fleet to rival that of Ancient Greece! I forgot Greek fire, so you will have to clad your stem in thin plates of brass shim as fire prevention.
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tonyH

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2017, 09:19:30 am »

As far as I remember, one of the reasons that the Beeb made the programme was the many weeks of correspondence in the Times regarding the speed of the average bireme. I think someone compiled the lot into a book but I'm not sure.
 :-))
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steve pickstock

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2017, 11:45:46 am »

As I recall one of the main points of the experiment was the 'under-pinnings'. This was a cable connecting both the stem and the stern, designed to keep them from 'dropping', keeping the line of the keel level.


In the Olympias, they used a steel rod, instead.
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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2017, 10:48:58 am »

I have been doing a bit of  'Underpinning'  myself.  It's a very 'long verses thin' type of frame, so I've added extra packing of plywood to the structure.

The frames were  'widened'  for better attachments of the planking and the bow shape has been stiffened up ready for carving later.

I have now constructed the extra oars to match the bigger ship, taking the total up to 30 now.  I have made a temporary set of bars to hold them in place and also to  'wiggle'  them about in a rowing motion just to give me ideas on the mechanical controls that will be needed. Up-down-left-right, sort of movement.

Now to cut some planking with my dangerous table saw, which sliced my thumb last time, so I'm a little wary.

Here's where we're at.





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steve pickstock

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2017, 08:17:43 pm »

Looks like deforming will not be an issue - good deep keel, unlike the trireme which was more like a racing shell.
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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2017, 09:18:35 pm »

She seems sturdier now.  I have been working on making the oars fit over two decks so have to make a different holding strip to keep them spaced apart and at different heights.  It now looks like I have make 30 more Oars for the other side.   ok2

The first planking strip has been secured, starting with the top of the hull rather than the usual keel start.  It's all square and true, so it gives me a line to work from. Luckily the planking strips came out well as I did them on the band saw and NOT that circular bench saw this time.   %)

Scheesh, the weather was warm today.  The aliphatic resin glue was dry in under 30 mins.

John,  the magazine arrived from Ebay today, so read it out in the sunshine.  No useful tips, I'm afraid, but the bloke building his version was very secretive.

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carlmt

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #39 on: July 05, 2017, 10:32:13 pm »

Bloody hell!!!!!!!!!  :o :o :o :o :o :o  There is going to be some head-scratching in the Tug-Kenny household over the coming weeks here!!!!!!

Two decks of working oars????  And I thought you were brave trying to make one deck's worth work.

I really admire your tenacity here Ken - I am watching this with awe!!!

Carl - who cant quite believe what he is seeing here!!!  %% %%

Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2017, 10:00:57 am »


Thanks Carl.  Funny how things  'run away with you'.   I'm off to the wood yard for more  'oar wood'.   If you've got 10, you might as well fit 60.    %)  %)   At least it won't sink---------- ever.

cheers

ken
 
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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2017, 11:49:03 am »

My Bandsaw has exploded it's blade.   <:(

I was busy sawing away on 3mm timber and a clicking noise followed by a large  CRACK and wheels spinning furiously as bits' of blade reeled out of the machine.

I jumped back furiously in shock and watched it all come to rest.   The blade had snapped suddenly giving me the fright of my life. Thank goodness it was well protected with guards.

The rest of the day was spent travelling to Axminster tools for a new blade where enquiries were made as to the cause, because the blade was only 6 months old and still had teeth sharp enough to do damage.

They could offer no explanation as to the reason and sold me another one.  I didn't get a refund or reason for it's demise.

Any tips from you folks please, before I fit it today.

ken

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TailUK

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2017, 02:21:58 pm »

They sometimes just go.  I've worked with band saws for 30 odd years and you can never predict when they'll let go. Except, that it usually happens as you start it or stop it.  Tiny flaws in the welded or brazed joint or simple fatigue.  Try and replace the blade with as good a quality replacement as you can.   I like Starett blade but can't always use it.

Check your tracking carefully and the position of the top and bottom guides.  Having the blade rubbing on the guides and produce unwanted heat which fatigues the blade.  Keep the guides adjusted correctly as a lot of exposed blade will flex unduly and again cause fatigue.  You do need to remember sometimes they just get tired of being band saw blades and break.  If there's plenty of life in the busted blade you can always use the old blade to make yourself a little bow saw.
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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2017, 04:57:49 pm »

Thank you the information.  I have it now running and cut a further 30 paddles alright.

The bloke in the shop mentioned all the stuff you say above so I was very studious in putting it back together.  We figured it might have been because the  'saw belt' was already too tight and along came the hot weather and expanded things.  The welded joint was still there and the break was away from the join.  ( I thought the old one was still sharp but the new one took a nick out of my forefinger to prove it was there.  (It's sharp to even look at)   {-)

 On with the build.  Here are the 60 oars waiting outside the hull.

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TailUK

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2017, 05:12:42 pm »

There's a tendency for people putting blades on to overdo the tensioning.  You have to understand your not tuning a guitar ( so don't do it up so tight it twangs) there should be a gauge somewhere on the saw to indicate the correct tension or the instructions should tell you how much side deflection is right for a correctly tensioned blade.
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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2017, 05:18:03 pm »


I went by feel and blade movement like you say.  It does move sideways a little without undue force and it runs smooth at the moment.

Cheers

ken
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TailUK

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2017, 07:31:37 pm »

Sounds about right then.
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ballastanksian

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2017, 09:25:42 pm »

Had I known Ken, you may have passed near my way. I would have seen you right for a toilet break and a cup of tea to set you up for the next leg of your journey.

Did you travel via Honiton and the M5?
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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2017, 09:39:14 pm »


I went to the Store at Cardiff, Ian.  It's just down the road from Newport, but I would have loved a cup of tea. Thank you for thinking of me.   :-)) 

 The motorway traffic has now reached suicidal proportions so I only drive when I have to. It must have been the hottest day of the year as it was 37 degrees when I started the engine.   %%

ken
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ballastanksian

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Re: A Greek BIREME
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2017, 09:49:55 pm »

Do you mean Cardiff in Australia Ken ??  :} I did not know there was a branch in Cardiff though I have visited their branch in Kent, so it is logical for them to have other branches.

I did wonder when you said you drove to the shop, as that would be an epic drive especially if you want to avoid the bridge tolls.

I was thinking how you were avoiding your table saw and then the bandsaw tries to eat you. Your tools are alive, ALIVE I TELL EE!!!!!  %%
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