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Author Topic: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman  (Read 9752 times)

zooma

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1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« on: August 21, 2020, 03:25:45 pm »

A casual mention of my wish to start building a replica of my first ever r/c model boat on another Mayhem thread brought an interesting response from ChrisF who is a keen builder of Fairey Marine model boats - and like myself he prefers making them to a 1/12 scale.


My Aerokits Swordsman was 1/12 scale, and it makes a nice size model - not too big and not too small.


I used to enjoy running my Swordsman back in the late '60s with a friend who also had a 1/12 scale Swordsman, but he enjoyed showing-of his professional cabinet making skills and so he used the P.Connolly plans to make his beautiful example from, and fortunately these Model Maker plans also produced a 1/12 scale model.


Unfortunately, the Swordsman is one of the few Aerokits models that has not been re-kitted, but I was able to purchase a copy set of the Aerokits Swordsman plans from eBay, and these also came with a set of drawn templates for the bulkheads, which is quite handy as these shapes are not shown on the kit plans and so they have saved me a lot of time by not having to develop the shapes myself.


The P.Connolly plans are also still available too, so anyone wanting to build a 1/12 scale Swordsman has a choice of plan to build one from.


The main difference between these two models is that the Aerokits built model has lift-off cabin tops, whereas the P.Connolly design has a complete lift-off superstructure making very easy access to anything inside the hull (such as motors, speed controller, batteries etc).


I actually raced my Swordsman in the off-shore series back then using a Merco 61 twin plug glow motor where the model proved it self to be totally reliable and water-tight too. Unfortunately my friends Swordsman was not suitable for off-shore running as any water washing across the decks would easily find its way into the hull due to the complete lift-off superstructure - so mine was the better all weather performer,  although running them on our own waters at home (mainly on the River Avon and Kennet and Avon Canal) was never a problem for either model.


Hopefully I will get started on this model very soon as I am really looking forward to owning and running another 1/12 scale Swordsman again.
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2020, 04:25:04 pm »

As a matter of interest,  there were 61 Swordsman built by Fairey Marine between 1964 and 1974 and the Swordsman was the largest model made by them at the time.
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madboats

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2020, 07:54:37 pm »

Hi zooma


Just read your post about your experiences running the Swordsman. I too have built the areokits version powered by Merco 61 back in the 60s its a  pity they haven't reintroduced the kit along with the other aerokits range i think it would do very well. So like you i turned to Phil Connolly's plan put a sc 60 in but found it a bit to powerful for it on the turns, having built another put a asp 46 this runs very well indeed. I also have a 24 inch version with a brushless in it which goes very well. Just one thing i can not seem to master is the windscreen which is a bit of pity as i think it just finishes the model off


Happy building and boating
madboats
 
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ChrisF

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2020, 08:30:34 pm »

Hi Bob

Good to see that you are going to start building the Swordsman soon. I got as far as building the hull but then got side-tracked with other Fairey projects! I must get back onto it.

I think it's worth mentioning that the drawings off Ebay are a mixed bag. The original kit drawings are first class but the accompanying templates are pretty poor as they have been badly traced around the kit parts and will make the build a challenge and involve extra work in producing symmetrical parts with correctly positioned slots etc.

The Philip Connolly drawings produced for the Model Maker Plans Service are as you would expect  professionally drawn. They are available from the Model Dockyard and listed as MM791.

Have you got as far as thinking about using one motor or two? There's plenty of room!

Chris
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2020, 09:20:23 pm »

Hi Chris,


My Swordsman will have just one shaft and one brushless motor - but it has to be a "good-un".  My best memories of my Swordsman were spent mainly looking at its cabin tops as it was thrown into a tight turn whilst absolutely "flat-out".


The Aerokits Swordsman really "dug-in" to the turns like it was a motorcycle on the wall of death - absolutely brilliant!


If a twin shaft variant could perform like that it would spend most of its life with one propeller spinning in the air  - I can remember my Swordsman spinning the single prop in the air at times - it really was a sparkling performer.


Thinking about it - I don't know why I haven't built another one much sooner!


Stay safe!


Bob.







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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2020, 10:01:35 pm »

Hi zooma


Just read your post about your experiences running the Swordsman. I too have built the areokits version powered by Merco 61 back in the 60s its a  pity they haven't reintroduced the kit along with the other aerokits range i think it would do very well. So like you i turned to Phil Connolly's plan put a sc 60 in but found it a bit to powerful for it on the turns, having built another put a asp 46 this runs very well indeed. I also have a 24 inch version with a brushless in it which goes very well. Just one thing i can not seem to master is the windscreen which is a bit of pity as i think it just finishes the model off


Happy building and boating
madboats
 


Hi Madboats,


I am going to build my Swordsman to the Aerokits plan as I like the way that the superstructure is included in the hull build - and I never had any problems with access through the cabin top for me to consider making a complete lift-off top like the P.Connolly plan offers.


My TID tug was built that way and it does give unbeatable access, but with a good performance boat like the Swordsman I like to be able to keep any water that splashes onto the deck out of the hull, and the Aerokits construction method does this better.


I remember experimenting with an extra 1/8 x 1/4 strip laminated on top of the chine rubbing strakes to double the thickness to making it 1/4 x 1/4. This did help with the hull when it was basically "running on its side" most of the time and was only really noticeable when out of the water - and even then it took a few trips before my pal noticed what I had done........and modified his a few days later !


The windscreen is a problem to get right.  I can't remember how I made mine (it was a long time ago) but the eBay plans include a windscreen template so I will try making a card windscreen from this first to check the fit.


I need to find some good quality clear material to make the screen from as I have nothing here "in stock" but something a little heavier than the usual clear glazing that I usually fit for window glazing is needed.  Any ideas where I can find a suitable screen material?


Stay safe!


Bob.






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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2020, 10:02:40 pm »

I have a Turnigy 600  4030-880KV helicopter motor here that I am tempted to try in the Swordsman - I bought it to replace a Torpedo 850 brushed motor in a Sea Queen - but having seen the way that the smaller 3648-1450KV motor performs in my Rapier, I think one of those could be plenty good enough to give a good performance.


The compromise between having a good motor that can make white water with a nice brisk performance and one that becomes "anti-social" when running on the cub lake is something that I need to consider, so the 3648-1450 is the motor I think I would like to try first - and I suspect that it will do the job quite nicely!


Running on two cells only, this motor really does perform very well without the extra cost or need to buy 3 or 4 cell LiPo packs.









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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2020, 10:02:20 am »

Hi Bob

I'm using an Overlander 4250/06 800kV in mine but will have to run it on 3S or 4S to get sufficient revs for some decent performance. Obviously I haven't tried it yet but the "science" behind the choice was:

The Swordsman is a fairly heavy, beamy old lump.
It "needed" to be a bigger motor than I'm using in my Huntsman 28 and 31.
I'm using a 45mm 3 bladed brass prop.
The prop shaft is 5mm and pretty long and heavy and takes more turning than the 4mm used in my other boats.
I'm not water cooling.

At least your choice is a known quantity!

That's the good thing about brushless though. With them being so powerful their performances overlap quite a bit and so the choice can be a number of different motors and with the advent of LiPos you can add volts without much of a weight penalty.

Chris
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2020, 10:59:34 am »

Hi Chris,


Compared to my 3848 your 4250 is a physically bigger motor, but my 4030 motor is a "600 class" helicopter motor and I think they must describe them differently.


I am not sure how the measurement system works on 600 size helicopter motors, but when placed alongside my trusty blue plastic ruler this one measures 48mm diameter and is 56mm long - so using the motor description as described to me on another Mayhem thread, this motor should be a 4856  !


In common with other "600 class" helicopter motors, this one has a 6mm shaft.  I have some other 600 class helicopter motors (Hacker/RJX) and they are also a similar size in size in diameter and length. I doubt I will need a motor this big in my Swordsman. I was going to fit it in my Corvette if I had gone for a single shaft drive so it is currently unemployed.


I always run a water-cooled speed controller and fit the motors on a water-cooled mount in my boats when using brushless motors that are capable of producing a good performance.  Maybe this is just a "hang-up" from my previous days of running glow motors and petrol engines, but I know that if things get "hot" they can go wrong and so I take no chances and like to run everything as cool as possible.


I also find it really easy to swap motors when running them on an alloy water-cooled motor mount as every motor I have tried to date will fit the same size mounts (and they are certainly not expensive), so it is possible to permanently fit the "side cheeks" into the hull and keep a spare motor fitted to its own alloy water-cooled mount that can be  fitted into any of my hulls that have a pair of pre-fitted "cheeks" within a minute or two.  Almost a "drop-in" system.


The 3848-1450 runs in my Rapier on a water-cooled mount and has a 5mm prop shaft.  I fitted a 150amp water-cooled speed controller and run it on a single 5600amp  60C two cell LiPo.  This combination comes back after a "spirited run" with the motor cold and the speed controller mildly warm so I am very happy with this choice so far.


You will have to let me know what size of speed controller are you using with your 4250-800 motor and see how hot they run - maybe I am wasting my time with water cooling - but old habits die hard!


Stay safe.


Bob.

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2020, 12:46:16 pm »

Hi Bob

Harry (Canabus) doesn't using cooling either and runs his boats for extended periods at high speed. Personal choice though really and obviously it's easier to install cooling when building rather than after.

The 4250 800kV motor calls for a 60amp ESC but I'm going to use a 120amp one, albeit more expensive. My theory is, and it's just that, is that with an oversize motor, ESC and battery the components will have an easy time of it and run cool. It's all part  of the fun anyway trying different things and making your own decisions based on the experience of others. For some things there is no right or wrong just alternatives.

Chris
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2020, 01:48:20 pm »

"to cool or not to cool" - that is the question!


Yes Harry has told me that he does not use water-cooling - along with many others - it is a personal choice that is usually influenced by your own experience and the type of motor/speed controller/LiPo being used and the level of performance you intend extracting from the model.


Once the alloy water-cooled motor mounts are installed, the motor and speed controller can be used for nice gentle cruising (this can make the speed controller run hotter) or for flat-out running (when the motor may get hotter but the speed controller could well run cooler).


You need to find out how your Swordsman runs when you run it for the first time and let me know your findings.


The 800kw motor is not too demanding on power, should run cooler, and give you a much longer run time than I could expect to get from my 1450kw motor as it is powerful but very demanding on the batteries.


I have ordered one of the newer type Turnigy SK3 3542-1250KV motors to see how much performance I loose when I drop it into my Rapier and note how much longer my run times will be.


Using the alloy water-cooled mounts I will only have to loosen the coupling and unscrew the cap head bolts to release the 3638-1450KV motor and drop the new SK3 into position, replace the bolts and tighten the coupling.  It is so quick and easy to do this that I can make one run with the 3648 and change to the 3542 for the next run whilst everything is still fresh in my mind and nothing is lost due to any elapse of time.........or my bad memory!


I don't see any disadvantages of running with brushless motors mounted in inexpensive (but every efficient) alloy water-cooled mounts to keep the motor bearing and speed controller cool, but I do know what can happen without water cooling - and that can spoil your day!







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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2020, 04:09:21 pm »

You'll probably have your Swordsman on the water before I do!  :-)

As you say the mounts you use are good from the ease of installation and motor replacement point of view even if the cooling function isn't used.

The lake I use isn't that big and so you can't sustain high speed for long,  more like short bursts between the turn buoys we use for racing. So speed is being constantly varied from slow to fast and so I shouldn't have any problems.

Chris
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2020, 04:49:53 pm »

I haven't cut any wood yet Chris, but I am looking forward to getting started.


Maybe we could see both of our new Swordsman boats on the water in time for summer 2021, and if we have a suitable inoculation (jab) for the dreaded virus we will be free to travel too!


I have just put my Loyal Chancellor and Maggie M on eBay to make some space in my overcrowded  workshop - along with my almost un-run Relentless V2 that I just don't have the time to play with!


Enjoy your weekend!


Bob.
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2020, 09:26:11 pm »

Hi Bob


Sorry for the late reply my ic powered Swordsman has the complete superstructure removeable i think this is more practical been ic powered but my 24 inch version i just have the hatch tops lift off. I obtained some perspex on ebay there are several companies listed which stock different thicknesses and will cut to size hope this helps


stay safe


madboats   
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2020, 10:30:56 pm »

Hi Mad Boats,


Pleased to know that you have got the Swordsman bug!


I am guessing that your ic powered Swordsman will be the 33" model (1/12 scale)?  That would be easy to convert to electric power and could then be run on a lot more clubs water - its hard to find anywhere that allows ic power these days!


Thanks for your tip - I will check eBay for some perspex sheet.   I did think about this but I was not sure how easy it would be to bend into shape - but it would be a lot more durable than clear acrylic sheet once it was fixed in place.


Bob.





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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2020, 11:46:47 am »

Last night I was in my workshop waiting for some glue to dry on the Corvette and decided to take a look at the plans for the Aerokits Swordsman and some drawings that Chris F had kindly sent to me.


I made a card template (cereal packet) from the drawings for a keel and found a suitable piece of birch ply that had been left over from a previous project and cut it out. The wood fitted the plan perfectly so I have made a start!


When I came back in I jumped onto the modelboatbits site and ordered an 11" M5 Maxidrive propshaft (threaded one end only) and a suitable 5mm x 5mm Powerflex coupling coupling


Today I will take a look and see what wood I need to order to complete the Swordsman build.


I am really looking forward to owning another Swordsman!
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2020, 03:13:22 pm »

Hi Bob

Great that you have made a start on the build. If you build a sister Swordsman what do you fancy building? As well as the rear cabin version with the roof level with the deck that you have the Aerokits drawings for and have started building, there is the version I'm building as per the photo of Tireur shown with the cabin roof just below the top of the coamings and then there's the full open cockpit version.

There is also a later version with a full height rear cabin, similar looking to the Huntsman 31, called the Super Swordsman.

My build stalled because I started building a Huntsman 31 and then got side-tracked again when starting my latest project, a Huntress with a stern-drive.

Thanks to RadioJoe's inspiration in his Hunters Moon Huntsman 31 build I'm going to plank the decks etc. on the Swordsman and Huntsman and am just about to order the timber required.

Chris 



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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2020, 03:28:21 pm »

All of the Swordsman variants sound interesting Chris, I have never seen any pictures of the full open cockpit version - but it does sound interesting...and different !
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2020, 05:56:39 pm »

Hi Bob

Photo of one with a non-standard screen and top. I guess that there weren't/aren't many of the full-sized boats because most folks wanting a boat of this size wanted more accommodation and so bought one of the aft cabin variants. The full cockpit, whilst nice, is a bit of a waste of space. This also applied to the Huntsman 31. For those wanting a full cockpit and a smaller boat there was the Huntress 23 and Huntsman 28.

There is a build of a full open cockpit Swordsman in the Masterclass section for a smaller model.

Chris


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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2020, 02:12:59 pm »

You are a mine of information on the Fairey model Chris - thanks fr sharing it with us.


Can you let me know what the differences are with the Super Swordsman please?


Does it have exactly the same 33ft hull as the Swordsman ?.........and hopefully it does not look the same as the Huntsman 31 as there are already a lot of those models out there in various scales and I have already sent away for the 1/12 scale plans fr the Huntsman 31..............
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2020, 04:48:56 pm »

Hi Bob

The Super Swordsman was a later version of the Swordsman with a full height rear cabin and unfortunately, well from the side anyway, looks very similar to the Huntsman 31! But the real things would look a lot different as along with being a couple of foot longer the Swordsman has a greater beam that doesn't narrow towards the stern. The H31 is much narrower and sleeker and is the most modern of the timber hulled Faireys and the hull was the basis of the later glass-fibre Spearfish boats. As regards models they would be harder to tell apart unless you know your Faireys.

The hull of the Super Swordsman is the same, though some stretched ones were produced as were others in the Fairey range. As you can see it has the larger angular engine air intakes as used on some of the H31 and utilized by RadioJoe in his build.

As for the H31 you could always do what I'm doing and build it with the open cockpit. I reckon it looks great with the sleek hull and will go well. My drawing attached.

Chris
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2020, 10:09:20 pm »

That open H31 does look good.


Have you any idea how long they made the stretched Super Swordsman by any chance?
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2020, 10:36:13 pm »

Hi Bob

38 and 42 feet.

Cheers, Chris
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2020, 10:58:03 pm »

Hi Chris,


That is a big stretch from 33ft to 38ft and even more of a stretch to 42ft!


How did they distribute the extra length - and did they keep the width the same?



I guess they would have to add the extra length in the middle of the boat to prevent the rear end getting too narrow, but keeping the cockpit the same size so all of the length went into the rear cabin - or did they share it out by extending the front cabin too by moving the cockpit backwards?


This could be an interesting boat.


Even the 42ft Super Swordsman would only be 42" long and nothing like as bulky as the Corvette.........


Food for thought!


Bob.
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2020, 11:55:31 pm »

Hi Mad Boats,



Thanks for your tip - I will check eBay for some perspex sheet.   I did think about this but I was not sure how easy it would be to bend into shape - but it would be a lot more durable than clear acrylic sheet once it was fixed in place.


Bob.


I've been trying to find a supplier of acrylic/perspex for a Huntsman. The original in the kit was .5mm thick. Plenty of .5mm around but only up to A4 size, no sheets big enough to use on a model. Did try some model aircraft sites but they don't seem to use it anymore.
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