Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length.

[ChrisF]

Hi Bob

As well as trying the soldering iron I was going to try my old Black & Decker heat gun/paint stripper. It's got a number of different nozzles, most of which I've never used. I seem to remember one of those has a lip, must dig it out of the garage and have a look.

Be interested to see how your new one performs.

Chris

[zooma]

Tonight I went back to the Swordsman construction and made a start on the cabin tops.

The formers for the removable part of the front cabin roof and the rear fixed part of the cabin roof that will eventually have the large curved windscreen mounted on top of it have been cut from 4mm birch ply.

I need to make some more templates from the plan for the two base parts for the main cabin tops (removable front part and fixed rear part) and then I can glue the formers onto them and cut some plywood skins for the tops.

It is nice to cut some wood again and return to making some more progress on the Swordsman.

[ChrisF]

I've decided that my heatgun is too big and powerful really so have ordered a smaller Proxxon. Any excuse for a new tool!

I shall be joining you in doing a bit of wood cutting again soon.

Chris

[zooma]

I've decided that my heatgun is too big and powerful really so have ordered a smaller Proxxon. Any excuse for a new tool!

I shall be joining you in doing a bit of wood cutting again soon.

Chris

I chose the little IRODA MJ-950 Portable Heat Shrink Gun - very small and works on butane gas.

At first I didn't think it was working very well as I tested it on the coloured heat shrink tubing I bought off eBay, but when I switched back to any other type of heat shrink tubing that I already had it worked well enough!

The coloured heat shrink from eBay is thin and feels very "plasticky"  - I know that sounds a bit daft  - but the others are thicker and feel almost "rubbery" in comparison so my opinion is that the coloured heat shrink tubing that  bought from eBay is not worth bothering with.

....but the little heat shrink gun works well!

[zooma]

Last night I cut the base for the main cabin roof and the formers to shape the double curvature that this roof has.

I fitted the large end former (C2) the wide central "spine" (C6) and the two mid half formers (C4 x2) and nailed the base down onto the bench to stop it twisting as the PVA glue dries - and also planted three tins of paint on top as well to hold the formers in place!

Tonight I will withdraw the nails to check and see exactly how the front door former (C3) actually fits.  Although the plan is not very clear about this, I think it needs to be glued at the same angle as the front screen so that when the roof it fitted it will lay flat against the back of the front windscreen - so I would need to allow for the thickness of some window glazing - BUT - fitting it these way would show the base of the roof through the front windscreen.

Maybe I can set it back so it bridges across the two front corners of the front windscreen as this would give me some space to hollow-out the front edge of the base where it is visible through the "front window" to try and hide this a little?

I honesty can't remember how I fitted this part when I was able to build my first Swordsman from an Aerokits kit - but that was back in 1966-67 and although I still have perfect recall - my memory prevents me from making good use of it 

Whichever way I decide to go, when I fix this front roof former (C3) onto the roof base I will nail the base back down onto bench again and shape some wood to make the two cabin roof sides (shown on the plan as parts C5).

[tonyH]

Roof stuff...

[madwelshman]

Coming along there Bob 


I have the cabin roof to make for my Veron H28, (like so many jobs) at some point 


Keep up the good work.


Will

[zooma]

Thanks Will,

Last night I fitted the C3 front roof former and made and fitted the C5 cabin roof sides and nailed the assembly back down onto the bench.


I noticed that the 4mm plywood base was lifting slightly on the corners - always a potential problem with a lift-off cabin roof assembly when trying to keep it flat as the adhesive drys

After adding some more nails to hold everything absolutely flat (again), I made and fitted some internal diagonal "anti-warp" struts that I hope will stop any twisting before the roof skins are fitted.

Tonight I cut and fitted the left and right cabin roof skins after pulling the nails out of the roof base and I was pleased to see that it had all dried nice and flat with no twist - not bad as it is almost impossible to buy plywood that arrives nice and flat with no twist, so the nailing the base to a flat bench surface and adding the "anti-warp"struts worked - now I just have to hope that by fitting the two halves of the roof skins at the same time it will stay flat and not dry with any twist.

The main cabin roof skins are needed to be fitted in two halves due to the double curvature of the roof - something that a one piece skin could not do as it would not be able to conform to the complete 3D shape.

Even the two half-skins were under some strain to conform to the curvature and I was surprised at how many clamps and brass nails were needed to hold them down to the formers - so I am a little concerned that as the PVA drys it try to twist the roof base back out of shape again!

Sadly, there is no practical way to nail this final assembly back down to the bench again, so I am hoping that the glues drys-out evenly and that the "anti-warp" struts can hold everything in place.

If this assembly dries OK and stays flat I then need to make sure it can be blended into the narrow fixed cabin top that will also form the base for the wrap-around windscreen.  I have not fitted the ply skin to this section so I can adjust the front and rear formers to align with the lift-off cabin top assembly.

Bob.

[madwelshman]

Nice one Bob.


I have all of this to learn and look forward(?) to yet.


The 34" H31 I recently won will definitely need a whole new cabin being made, ooh, I can't wait 


You do realise, that I'm going to be badgering both You and Chris for much guidance in the future 


Will

[Colin Bishop]

Electrical or masking tape can be a good way of holding components together while glue dries.

Colin

[zooma]

Electrical or masking tape can be a good way of holding components together while glue dries.

Colin

Thanks Colin,

I did try electrical tape, gaffer tape, masking tape, and various elastic bands etc as I would have preferred not to use so many (any!) brass nails, but the double curvature of each side of the cabin top skins always left one area lifting away.

It was not possible to keep all of the edges hard against all of the formers at the same time.

My last resort was the nails, and plastic clamps, but I have only driven the nails in part-way so when I get out to my workshop later today I have the choice of cutting the heads off and driving the shafts in, or pulling them out after I have removed the clamps.

I will probably leave some of the brass shafts in strategic places and remove most of them and fill the holes they will leave!

Thanks for your help - I know your idea usually works well - but the combination of a double curvature and 1.5mm ply beat us on this occasion.

Bob.

[zooma]

Last night I removed the plastic clamps and placed the cabin top assembly onto the bench to see if it had warped - fortunately all is well as the cabin top base was flat and wobble free, so some of the brass nails were removed, and others had their heads clipped-off and were tapped down flush to act are permanent fixtures.


The top skins were trimmed back and the small (fixed) remaining part of the cabin top was checked for alignment with the removable cabin top and glued down.  Again I noticed that the 1.5mm ply skin needed to be held into place with some more brass nails and was left this way over-night to dry.


The grain of the 1.5mm cabin top skins were all cut to give the easiest  "wrap" but the curvatures of the roof still needed some mechanical fixings to hold them in place.


The small fixed part of the Swordsman top is also where the main screen will sit, so it will have a curved 1.5mm overlay fixed to it after it has been shaped to fit the curvature of the screen.


I am now looking for some pictures of a Swordsman with clear views of the rear cabin variant.  If I can see enough I will make this variant so it will look just a little different to a standard kit built Swordsman.

[Colin Bishop]

Glad you got the roof sorted. Looks like your method was effective.

There are some good photos of an aft cabin version here:

http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/yacht/166/fairey-swordsman-33-aft-cabin-1970

I found them useful for adding detail to my 1:16 scale kit.

Colin

[zooma]

Thanks Colin,

That is a helpful set of reference pictures.

I think the curvature of the cabin sides (I took mine from the Aerokits plans) shows the top line in the area where the rear cabin top will be is curved, so if my rear cabin is to have its roof more or less parallel to the sides I will need to curve the roof from front to back to match it - as well as from side to side.

This will be another "double curvature" roof for me to form - I was hoping that the roof would be more or less a straight line from front to back, with only the "left to right" cabin top curvature to contend with.

I suppose this must be right (unless the Aerokits side profile is wrong?), so I will start to make some formers to fit inside the cab sides to run more or less in line with the sides and raise the top of the rear cockpit bulkhead up high enough to suite.

Does the rear cab roof on your Swordsman have this same double curvature?

Bob.

[Colin Bishop]

There is some double curvature but not very much fore and aft on the 1:16 kit which has been simplified to some extent. The aft cabin roof is Liteply with a printed plywood overlay. I didn't have any problems with it. I did add some mahogany trim to make things look a bit smarter as below.

Colin

[tonyH]

More roof stuff.....

[Colin Bishop]

Nothing like a bit of brute force to persuade the wood to stay in position! 

Colin

[zooma]

Nothing like a bit of brute force to persuade the wood to stay in position! 

Colin

Ha - I doubt that my Swordsman will look anything like as well finished and detailed as yours is,  as I am keen to get it on the water sooner rather than later!


Making a windscreen is my next cause for concern (while I hide away from tackling it by chopping out some more wood!).  I am not sure what to use as a frame for the screen - or how to fix it onto the clear plastic  - and without spreading glue all over the clear bits!


As as for the planking - well thats another story...................I am told that the racing Fairey craft were "painted" - now if that also included the decks.....................


Bob.

[Colin Bishop]

Yes, you can paint the decks, grey to simulate painted canvas for example.

I found the best way to simulate the windscreen was to use Trimline white tape on the clear plastic.The kit manufacturer recommended just painting the frame on which works OK at 1:16 scale. OK it's not a real frame but it is neat without any messy glue residue which is what counts.

Colin

[ChrisF]

Hi Bob

The coamings are curved and where the roof meets is almost a straight line. I shall probably follow the line of the coamings though as I'm planking and think it looks better. Note also that the rear of the coamings and upstand is quite low.

Surprisingly they did race Swordsman and some had painted decks so you are in order!

I'm working on the superstructure drawings for the Huntsman at the moment before looking at the Swordsman again.


Chris

[zooma]

Hi Bob

The coamings are curved and where the roof meets is almost a straight line. I shall probably follow the line of the coamings though as I'm planking and think it looks better. Note also that the rear of the coamings and upstand is quite low.

Surprisingly they did race Swordsman and some had painted decks so you are in order!

I'm working on the superstructure drawings for the Huntsman at the moment before looking at the Swordsman again.


Chris

I think I will make the roof line follow the shape of the super-structure sides Chris - it will make another nice double curvature roof to cover.


Planking this roof would be a nice way of doing it, so once the combings are cut and the curved side formers are fixed to the cab sides I will have a better idea about the best method to for me to use on this model.


The front cabin roof actually followed the double curvature OK using separate left and right 1.5mm skins - but the base needed to be "encouraged" not to warp or twist and it needed a few brass nails to keep in on the frames until the PVA had set.


After a few days I expect the shape of the 1.5mm roof skins will have been well and truly "set" as I have found that this thin ply is always keen enough to bend if it is not stored dead flat and under some weight.


Any sheets of 1.5 plywood that I have "in stock" are stored at the bottom of the pile of plywood sheets with the top layer always being the thickest, but "modern plywood" is seldom flat and twist free when it is bought new, so I usually find that some additional weight is needed on top of the pile to help press everything flat and the longer it stays flat under weight the more chance it has of being flat and twist free when I actually come to use it!


If you are working on the 34" Huntsman 31 superstructure drawings that can only be a good thing! It is a nice size model (although not 1/12 scale!) but the superstructure just looks "wrong".  The front cab window is too tall and "pointy" and so the domed shape continues along the roof-line.


The full size Huntsman 31 has nice styling and looks good, and with a revised superstructure that looks more realistic it will make a really nice model.


Stay safe!


Bob.

[ChrisF]

Hi Bob

Planking the rear cabin roof should be relatively straightforward as the planks are straight though the double curvature will probably require some shaping to be done. I shall be using thicker planking than the 0.5mm I used for the deck.

I'm using the 34" drawings as a guide for my 1:12 Huntsman drawings but am keeping the curve to the top of the windows as flat as possible. I'm using strip wood for the roof so it will be a nice smooth curve as per my previous builds. I've had to increase the height of the sides slightly though as mine is a lift off superstructure and I need a bit of meat below the windows.

Talking of drawings I did post yours 1st Class on Monday but obviously due to postal delays they are taking longer.

Chris

[zooma]

Hi Bob

Planking the rear cabin roof should be relatively straightforward as the planks are straight though the double curvature will probably require some shaping to be done. I shall be using thicker planking than the 0.5mm I used for the deck.

I'm using the 34" drawings as a guide for my 1:12 Huntsman drawings and am keeping the curve to the top of the windows as flat as possible. I'm using strip wood for the roof so it will be a nice smooth curve as per my previous builds. I've had to increase the height of the sides slightly though as mine is a lift off superstructure and I need a bit of meat below the windows.

Talking of drawings I did post yours 1st Class on Monday but obviously due to postal delays they are taking longer.

Chris

Hi Chris,

Let's hope my "skinned" Swordsman rooftops look as smooth as your excellent planked ones - they are looking OK "in the rough" but I guess it will be easier to make a better judgement  when they are finished.

I may well end-up planking the rear cabin roof on my Swordsman, I will decide when I can see the shape that I have to cover which way to go.

Do you not already have the Nexus plans for the 1/12 scale Huntsman 31?  The cab shape on those plans look good - much more convincing than the shape of the 34" Precedent Huntsman 31 - and they are the right scale too!

Thanks for sending a copy of the 34" Modav '31 plans - very much appreciated and I will let you know as soon as they arrive.  Work on the 34" Huntsman project is temporarily stopped as I am waiting for some glass fibre tape to use for bonding the spacers and part bulkhead into the g/f hull, so I will study them with interest when they arrive - perfect!

Stay safe!

Bob.

[ChrisF]

Hi Bob

I do have the Nexus plans but I didn't use them for my drawings. Mine's a bit of a mongrel now as it started off as a Sport and I based the drawings on various sources. It will look fine though!


The Modav and the Precedent drawings are basically the same. The "dome" above the windows results from using ply for the roof that doesn't like being bent in two directions.

Chris

[zooma]

Hi Bob

I do have the Nexus plans but I didn't use them for my drawings. Mine's a bit of a mongrel now as it started off as a Sport and I based the drawings on various sources. It will look fine though!


The Modav and the Precedent drawings are basically the same. The "dome" above the windows results from using ply for the roof that doesn't like being bent in two directions.

Chris

Hi Chris,

If they (Modav/Precedent) got the shape of the roofline closer to the full size craft (rather than making it with such a high "non scale" dome shape) it would have been so much easier to cover.

Even with this dome shaped roof, Precedent intended their roof to be plywood covered too - and they included plywood roof skins the kit !

Aerokits had already solved this problem by supplying the plywood roof skins for their Swordsman kit in two halves - and it works!  Nice and simple - and with a more scale like roof curvature too!

Bob.