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Author Topic: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman  (Read 9746 times)

ChrisF

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #50 on: September 09, 2020, 09:44:32 am »

This all sounds terribly hard work. Why not just buy the Sarik plans designed by Dave Milbourn and scale them up? Much more accurate.

Colin


Yes, there would have been easier options, particularly as we already have the Philip Connolly drawings at the right scale but Bob specifically wanted to build the Aerokits version as he had done many years ago.


But it all adds to the fun! And Bob is a skilled builder so he will overcome the challenges!


Chris
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ChrisF

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2020, 09:55:31 am »

Hi Zooma Bob

I have a PDF copy of the original Aerokits Swordsman if you require them.

Just message me and I will send over via We Transfer.

All free of course !!

Harry


Hi Harry. You don't have the templates though do you if I remember?


I've got a paper set of the Aerokits drawings but a PDF copy would be useful for doing the superstructure. I had to scan it in multiple images as the work scanner would only do up to A3 and it was a pain piecing it together on the computer.


You should have my email.


Cheers, Chris
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Colin Bishop

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2020, 09:57:10 am »

Well, it's all about fun - can't argue with that. I'm currently building a 1903 liner at 1:150 scale using a 1:1200 waterline drawing, photos of the plans from the NMM and photos of the builder's model that used to be in the Science Museum. A lot of headscratching but still fun puzzling it all out.

Colin
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ChrisF

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2020, 10:03:44 am »

Now that is what I call terribly hard work!!!  O0


Chris
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2020, 10:27:20 am »


Yes, there would have been easier options, particularly as we already have the Philip Connolly drawings at the right scale but Bob specifically wanted to build the Aerokits version as he had done many years ago.


But it all adds to the fun! And Bob is a skilled builder so he will overcome the challenges!


Chris


Thanks for the "flowers" Chris, but I would consider myself more of a "Bodger" than a "skilled builder" - although if I keep practicing, I may get semi-proficient at it one day
(perhaps).


This build for me is to reproduce a copy of my first model boat - hence my choice to build this model to the Aerokits plan.


I bought my Swordsman kit from Cyril Howes a camera shop in Bath in the Abbey churchyard that opened-up a really large model department  that was run by an enthusiastic manager who obviously had access to a big budget as within a few short weeks it became extremely well stocked with everything any modeller could need and sadly, (for me at least) it had all the new kits and radio gear that my favourite much smaller shop (The Modellers Den in Lower Borough Walls, Bath) could not match.


My meagre apprenticeship "wages" were squandered on this kit and I built it in my parents out-house/coal-shed that had no electricity and only a small window so light was a problem as work was restricted to "good" daylight hours only. A regular check outside (or on a special occasion a quick visit to the kitchen) gave me the chance to check everything was done well and correctly aligned  - I needed better light to check this!


The adhesives used then were Aerolite 306 and Cascomite.  Both of these had to be mixed before use.  I remember at the time that the Aerolite 306 came with a glass bottle that contained a clear hardener and was claimed to be the adhesive that was used to glue the "wooden wonder" Mosquito fighter/bomber together - but it was too expensive for me to complete the build with so the majority of the work was held together with Cascomite that came as a powder in a tin that was mixed with water as required.


Although I don't have the luxury of having a kit box with all the parts inside, I do have electric light to illuminate the build and a band saw to cut the wood with. I am also using a modern PVA adhesive as the Cascomite became brittle with age and it was the reason why I coated all of the hulls interior with glass fibre matting and resin to strengthen and water-proof it.  Waterproof PVA and Aliphatic adhesives give a stronger bond and retain a little "flex" and so are much better suited for use in a model boat IMHO and are much easier to use -just point and squeeze the tube!


My good craftsman friend and fellow Bath Model Boat Club member built his Swordsman from the Connolly plans and it looked magnificent - but My Aerokits Swordsman definitely performed better so both versions have their advantages and my next build may be rather more "scale-like" ....time will tell.........






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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #55 on: September 09, 2020, 10:44:59 am »

Hi Zooma
My stretched Swordsman is called THE RAVEN which sits on "The Floating Country Cottage"!!!!

Harry
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2020, 11:12:27 am »

Hi Zooma
My stretched Swordsman is called THE RAVEN which sits on "The Floating Country Cottage"!!!!

Harry


I have seen the pictures of  The Raven  "floating cottage extension" and it looks really good - spooky even - and with a name like that maybe it should be painted black.........those yellow acrylic screens you have would look good on a black boat too!   %)
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2020, 05:44:45 pm »

Whilst patching-up the small leak on my Rapier I found myself looking at the pile of freshly cut Swordsman bulkheads and couldn’t resist getting the glue out before travelling back to the van today.


The rear bulkhead has the transom skin formers mounted on it (to give it the curved shape) so I decided to glue these onto the bulkhead whilst it was still flat.


I cut some longer chine formers from 6mm ply as the drawings provided with the plan were about 3/4” too short!


These were glued to the front of the first bulkhead that I had previously glued onto the keel and breasthook, so when I get back I hope to glue all the bulkheads onto the keel so it will start to show the Swordsman shape.
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2020, 03:50:00 pm »

Picz of Bitz Part1
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ChrisF

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2020, 12:48:56 pm »

Hi Bob

Good to seeing it progressing and looking forward to seeing the hull taking shape.

Chris
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2020, 01:06:38 pm »

Thanks Chris,


I am back home today and looking forward to seeing if the white PVA that I used to glue the bulkheads has dried OK and penetrated into the wood as it usually does.


The "fillet" of white PVA (still wet) that can be seen in the hastily taken pictures (that I took as I dashed away to the caravan)  is something that I have always applied around unseen but important joints. 


PVA and Aliphatic adhesives give a slightly more "flexible" bond than other types of adhesive and should survive the rigours of regular power boat use better than some of the others.


I am tempted to use super-glue at times - especially when I would prefer a "fast fix" to secure things in place that I can't easily clamp securely and are likely to move during the drying process if they are not secured adequately.


Super-glue should be OK on all joints (?) and I know that when I am making a stand I always use it to get a fast hold before I nail or screw in a mechanical fixing to support the joints, but soft some reason I don't trust it anywhere on my new hull builds - unless it is impossible to use PVA/Aliphatic adhesives.


Does anyone on Mayhem build wooden power boats using only suer-glue?.......and if so, has there been any problems with bond failure after extended and regular use on a performance hull ?
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2020, 05:10:58 pm »

Unfortunately I did not spot this smellin' mistook in time, so I have not been able to correct:-

"Does anyone on Mayhem build wooden power boats using only suer-glue?."

What I was hoping to find out was if anyone was happy to build their wooden model power boats using super-glue as the main adhesive, and if so, has there been any bond failures after regular hard performance use over a long period?










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SailorGreg

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2020, 06:01:15 pm »

Yes, I have built boats using primarily superglue, including the structural frames and stringers.  This one was done in 2014 and is in regular use.  So far so good!





Greg

zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #63 on: September 30, 2020, 07:45:45 pm »

Thanks Greg,


That is very reassuring as your boat is not exactly taking it easy!


I like to drive my boats fast like that every time I run them (this probably makes me a white water junkie) and the amount of "hammering" that the hull takes cannot be compared with most scale model boats that serenely glide around the lake.

The amount of pressure and the regular hard impacts the hull takes when being driven fast and hard must put a lot more stress on the hull joints and my fear was that a non-flexy bond would be a lot more prone to fracture - and ultimately fail much sooner than a comparatively flexible PVA/Aliphatic joint.


Building with super-glue would certainly speed things up a bit!


.......nice pictures too - thanks for sharing them!


Bob.
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2020, 10:11:51 pm »



.......nice pictures too - thanks for sharing them!


Bob.

Yes they are, but I take no credit.  A local camera club happened along one day and asked to use my boat as an exercise in doing panning shots, so I zipped backwards and forwards for a while as they snapped away.  Got some very nice pictures out of it!   :} :}

zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #65 on: October 01, 2020, 04:08:38 pm »

My plan to fit the bulkheads onto the keel with the cabin sides took a bit of a knock last night as although everything went together, I was not convinced that it was correct - something did not "feel" quite right.


For some reason, I decided to place the cabin sides onto the Aerokits plan and found that they were a little too long and the location notches were not perfectly aligned.


I had cut the cabin sides from the templates that came with the plan (eBay)  - what could go wrong??


Anyway, I could have cut a new pair of cabin sides, but I decided to modify the ones I already had to size and put up with the previously cut alignment notches showing on the underside of the cabin sides as I know these will be out of sight on the finished model.


Once adjusted everything fitted well enough so I assembled it using a new type of super-glue developed by King Cobra Racing as it is especially thin and "wicks" very quickly into the wood, but here is the clever bit - it drys a little more flexible than a regular super-glue!


I though this would be ideal for use when building my Swordsman as it allowed me to work quickly and ensure everything was fixed in place as the various parts were held square, but should also be durable and able to cope with some rough use!


This glue is not expensive and was developed for sticking the tyres onto large scale racing cars where the power of a race-tuned 26cc Zenoah is more than capable of ripping the tyre off of the rim, and even a good bond with a regular super-glue was known to fail in time as the tyre (and the rim) flexed in use.  This glue holds fast as the slightly flexible bond can stay secure and accommodate this slight movement between the tyre and rim.


If anyone is interested, I can post a link for this flexi super-glue as I think it could be perfect for use on model boats. As well as this super-thin flexible super-glue, Richard at King Cobra Racing also has regular thin, medium and thick varieties of his super-glue to cover most needs.

Now I have the bulkheads and the cabin sides (with the front screen) securely fixed I can take the next step in the assembly and fit the inside deck supports to the cabin sides prior to fitting the stringers.


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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #66 on: October 02, 2020, 06:57:36 pm »

Last night I fitted the inside deck supports to the cabin sides, the deck and chine stringers and the doublers.


I reverted back to PVA for this task as I like to have more time to fit the stringers and the 1/8 x 1/4 doublers.


This morning I removed all of the clamps and was able to "eye-up" the stringers at deck level and chine level and they all flow nicely. I always draw a centre line on the bulkheads and I make them symmetrical so I can look along the boat to check to make sure all of these centre lines are inline with each other so I know that there has been no twist when fixing the stringers  - and everything lines up OK so I know the hull is built nice and sqaure.


I will check this again after the bottom skins are fitted, but it should stay "square" and twist free from now onwards, and the next job that I will do should ensure no twist creeps into the build.


This "next job" is something that I always like to do, but many consider it totally unnecessary .  I like to fix additional 1/8 x 1/4 strips to each side of the bulkheads that will have any skinning glued to it to give a much larger contact area for the hull skins and deck section to stick to.


This is a fiddly and time consuming job, but it adds a lot of strength without the need to cut the main components out of a thicker plywood.  I will also add extra wood around the the edges of the bow to increase the bonding area of the skins where they all join together.


On some previous models I have actually filled most of the "void" in the bow area with balsa wood to give a massive additional bonding surface, but I want to include some high density foam in this space to give extra buoyancy and resistance to impact damage (I have never had any impact damage since I started running model boats - but there is always the first time and I like to build strong models).


Boats like the Swordsman do not have to be built "super-light" to perform well, and I would rather add a small amount of extra weight making the boat stronger than end up having to add any useless "dead weight" to bring the boat down to the marks.







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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2020, 10:03:10 pm »

PLANKING?


I am not ready for this stage yet - but I am considering planking the deck to give a more authentic appearance.  My first 1960's Swordsman was painted red and white and looked good as a "racing boat" (red deck - no planking) but I have never tried to plank any model boat before and perhaps this could be my first attempt?


The "12 inch to the foot" scale pictures that Chris has kindly shared with us on this thread suggest that the decking is a lighter colour than the mahogany colour deck edging, and actually look a bit grey in colour?


I have not seen a plan picture of the way the planks meet together on the foredeck, but I guess they probably meet on a central "spine" of some shape or design that I would like to see and copy.


Also, can anyone suggest what width and thickness of wood to use for this planking please?  I have no idea what sort of width 1/12 scale planking would be as used on a Swordsman and I don't know how thin the planks would normally be when glued on top of a plywood skin.


Hopefully when I get some info, I can try to cut the planking on my bandsaw  - and the central "spline" too ( once I know what sort of shape it should be).


I am guessing that the top edges of the planks should have their edges slightly chamfered so that when they are fitted together it will leave a slight grove that can then be filled with something to resemble a cauk line between the planks?


Lastly, what would be the best adhesive to glue the cut planks down onto the plywood skinned deck?


It sounds like planking can be a lot of work, but it is something that I have never tried so I am tempted.....................
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ChrisF

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #68 on: October 04, 2020, 10:43:20 pm »

Hi Bob

I've replied to your email but basically the planks need to be 5mm wide at 1:12 having counted those on the real thing! The light grey is weathered teak but I prefer the "new" honey colour.

I'm following Joe's Hunters Moon build method and timber choice - his thread will answer some of your other questions.

Bow layout to follow.

Cheers, Chris
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #69 on: October 04, 2020, 11:48:07 pm »

Hi Zooma


I used veneer strips of Blackwood and Huon Pine on my Eileen fishing boat.


Glue down the center planks.


Dry fitted planks together with masking tape and mark the area.


Added glue, then folded planks back down.


Canabus
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #70 on: October 05, 2020, 12:32:14 am »

Hi Bob

I've replied to your email but basically the planks need to be 5mm wide at 1:12 having counted those on the real thing! The light grey is weathered teak but I prefer the "new" honey colour.

I'm following Joe's Hunters Moon build method and timber choice - his thread will answer some of your other questions.

Bow layout to follow.

Cheers, Chris


Thanks Chris,


5mm plank width is what I will try cutting - and I will also see just how thin I can cut them on my bandsaw.


I will check Joes thread for details about the wood and adhesive choice.


Stay safe!


Bob.
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #71 on: October 05, 2020, 12:33:14 am »

Hi Zooma


I used veneer strips of Blackwood and Huon Pine on my Eileen fishing boat.


Glue down the center planks.


Dry fitted planks together with masking tape and mark the area.


Added glue, then folded planks back down.


Canabus


Thanks Chris,


Is that PVA glue you are using?


Bob.
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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #72 on: October 05, 2020, 09:49:18 am »

Sorry if this image comes out small, but it's a shot of the real thing - "Tireur".
Dave M
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zooma

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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2020, 10:31:31 am »

Thanks Dave,


That is a very informative picture.


Sun faded "teak" (light grey) may not be too easy to find, but the darker wood (mahogany colour) makes a really nice contrast - and the picture suggests that this dark wood area is slightly raised and so it may be possible to replicate this from a separate shape that could be laid-on after the planking is completed.


Presumably, the real Swordsman deck is planked into the sightly thicker "armature" and so this would be the most authentic way to go?


I will start looking to see if I can find any grey coloured wood to strip, but failing that I will see if i can find any pre-cut 5mm wide teak strips and wait for it to fade naturally!


Bob.



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Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #74 on: October 05, 2020, 11:05:54 am »

Morning Bob


First time planking for me too.


I've been using Titebond 3 on my Riva, planks for the deck are 3mmx1mm.  Good initial grip with the Titebond, and working time of a few minutes to get joints tight.  I'd lay a thin bead of glue (with a precision nozzle) at edge of the earlier plank to avoid 'voids' and glue planks together as well as down to the deck. A second thin bead down middle of the length of the new plank, then fit and clamp / masking tape to hold down.  I found that applying side pressure before clamping helps to keep the joints tight.





Also found the centre ruler very helpful to keep everything symmetrical.


Hope that helps.
David.
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