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Author Topic: Covid vaccination  (Read 73434 times)

Tug Fanatic

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #250 on: February 04, 2021, 03:28:41 pm »


    Considering the total dogs dinner that the EU have made of vaccinations and virus control on the continent, has anyone changed their mind on Brexit? Perhaps dumping that bunch of bureaucratic numpties was not a bad move after all !

Please, please and please again can we keep Brexit out of this thread.

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Baldrick

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #251 on: February 04, 2021, 04:15:03 pm »

At a certain juncture they become intertwined , especially when their lack of foresight endangers our vaccine arrangements.  You may have noticed that the French have been casting aspersions on the efficacy of our Oxford AstraZeneca in older people, doubtless because they have not got theirs and their population are getting nasty
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roycv

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #252 on: February 04, 2021, 04:23:00 pm »

I believe several of the smaller EU countries were going to order vaccines but were told to wait until the BIG decision had been made.  Large bodies need more time to re-act. 
I did vote to remain but am coming round to acceptance of where we are but I do see the general EU response to the UK leaving as being punishing. 

Further more they did show their true colours over Ireland and lack of vaccine and had to change their mind.  But I ask myself who made such a quick decision?  Not in their normal nature of pontificating and navel watching.  It is the size of the EU with all that burocracy which slows decision making and makes even simple changes so difficult.  As far as re-acting quickly there are too many different poltical agendas to do anything but trade favours. 

But at the other end of the spectrum, look at the USA for example. 
The two major parties are so entrenched in their beliefs it has become a way of life for many and an excuse for some to behave badly. 
I heard the Governor of Michigan say they had 55 million doses of vaccine but no distribution program under the previous regime.  There, with extreme views bent on simply stopping the other party from enacting their policies is the ultimate Them and Us situation.
Maybe the UK's somewhat laidback view on politics makes some sense, we just have to remove the likes of some senior political advisors (no names!) and let the old Etonians have their last stand with the Grammar school boys.

Giving our own Health minister his due he overrode the scientific advice of ordering 30M and ordered 100M vaccine doses.  The Daily Mail would have it that he was influenced by seeing the film "Contagion" So hooray for Hollywood!
Regards
Roy


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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #253 on: February 04, 2021, 04:38:11 pm »

Does anybody have any thought on why vaccination levels start low each Sunday and go up every day until they peak on the following Saturday and then halve on Sunday then repeat the pattern each week.

It gives a lovely sawtooth chart but why? I know it is something to do with supply but what?
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tonyH

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #254 on: February 04, 2021, 06:22:25 pm »

Sunday trading!
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RST

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #255 on: February 05, 2021, 02:05:42 am »

Can we leave British Exit out of the debate please?  Some of us have been campaigning hard to keep the UK together itself for 6+ years (nay, decades+)  now despite those who still disbeleive the last democratic vote north of the border.  We need to work together on this as the UK as a whole.
Frankly, I'm just amazed how this is apparently a model boat forum with very tighly controlled content but so much but talk on this is allowed so far!
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #256 on: February 05, 2021, 09:35:12 am »

Does anybody have any thought on why vaccination levels start low each Sunday and go up every day until they peak on the following Saturday and then halve on Sunday then repeat the pattern each week.

It gives a lovely sawtooth chart but why? I know it is something to do with supply but what?
The number of reported cases follows the same pattern.  I suspect it's something to do with there being nobody in the office noting numbers over the weekend.  After the weekend, you get the weekend total suddenly included.
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Baldrick

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #257 on: February 05, 2021, 09:41:06 am »

?
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Liverbudgie2

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #258 on: February 05, 2021, 11:04:39 am »

Please, please and please again can we keep Brexit out of this thread.


What on earth for? There is little enough fun as it is.....


LB
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warspite

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #259 on: February 05, 2021, 12:35:16 pm »

The number of reported cases follows the same pattern.  I suspect it's something to do with there being nobody in the office noting numbers over the weekend.  After the weekend, you get the weekend total suddenly included.


Clearly someone in the office doesn't want to give up there weekends to go socializing %)
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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #260 on: February 05, 2021, 12:46:38 pm »


Clearly someone in the office doesn't want to give up there weekends to go socializing %)
Sudden 'spikes' are great for stoking the fear porn.
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #261 on: February 05, 2021, 01:13:08 pm »

Sudden 'spikes' are great for stoking the fear porn.

Which is exactly why they give 7 day moving averages. One day figures only fools idiots including headline writers.
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #262 on: February 07, 2021, 07:48:23 am »

The news this morning is confusing. Oxford Zeneca are reporting that their vaccine has limited protection against the South African variant and might prevent serious illness for all.


Given how viruses work we can expect, I think, such mutations to become dominant and we will all need another vaccine in due course. This is one of the reasons why the world has got to reduce the number of people giving the virus chance to mutate. In a simple race we will never win.


The Pfizer vaccine has, of course, also reported reduced effectiveness.
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kinmel

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #263 on: February 07, 2021, 09:20:18 am »

The NHS has already placed future contracts for vaccines to provide annual re-vaccination up to 2025, with no intention of stopping then.  It is not just an order for the vaccine, it includes bottles, syringes, packaging and production lines specifically the for U.K.
The actual vaccine will be modified whenever necessary to match new variants; Oxford anticipate a modified vaccine 3 times a year if necessary.

We already do exactly this for the Flu vaccine, but it can only be done in countries with a NHS type structure.


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Colin Bishop

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #264 on: February 07, 2021, 09:49:55 am »

Mrs B unexpectedly leapfrogged me and had hers this morning at 8:15. Mine is due tomorrow but the Beast from the East has just arrived and I hope it won't be too beastly in the morning...

Colin
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #265 on: February 07, 2021, 10:08:52 am »

The NHS has already placed future contracts for vaccines to provide annual re-vaccination up to 2025, with no intention of stopping then.  It is not just an order for the vaccine, it includes bottles, syringes, packaging and production lines specifically the for U.K.
The actual vaccine will be modified whenever necessary to match new variants; Oxford anticipate a modified vaccine 3 times a year if necessary.

We already do exactly this for the Flu vaccine, but it can only be done in countries with a NHS type structure.

Yes we are in it for the long term.

Do they really change the flu vaccine up to 3 times a year? I had thought that they chose the strain that they thought would be dominant for each winter & made the vaccine accordingly. Mostly they guess right but occasionally they get it wrong and the vaccine isn't very effective.
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Tug Fanatic

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #266 on: February 07, 2021, 10:10:26 am »

Mrs B unexpectedly leapfrogged me and had hers this morning at 8:15. Mine is due tomorrow but the Beast from the East has just arrived and I hope it won't be too beastly in the morning...

Colin

I am hoping the same about our groceries delivery!
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Baldrick

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #267 on: February 07, 2021, 12:01:28 pm »




  No way am I going to wash the car !
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kinmel

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #268 on: February 07, 2021, 12:57:55 pm »

Yes we are in it for the long term.

Do they really change the flu vaccine up to 3 times a year? I had thought that they chose the strain that they thought would be dominant for each winter & made the vaccine accordingly. Mostly they guess right but occasionally they get it wrong and the vaccine isn't very effective.
The Flu virus mutates constantly, each annual Flu shot consists of a mixture of vaccines targeted at the 3, or 4 most common Flu variants.   

SARS variants such as Covid will not be eliminated this century, so we will have to learn to live with it. 

After all, Flu already kills up to 20,000 people in the UK every winter and no-one stays locked up at home because of that.
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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #269 on: February 07, 2021, 02:54:31 pm »

The Flu virus mutates constantly, each annual Flu shot consists of a mixture of vaccines targeted at the 3, or 4 most common Flu variants.   

SARS variants such as Covid will not be eliminated this century, so we will have to learn to live with it. 

After all, Flu already kills up to 20,000 people in the UK every winter and no-one stays locked up at home because of that.
Absolutely.      How long are people prepared to 'live' like this?
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phil_parker

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #270 on: February 08, 2021, 06:25:47 pm »

Given how viruses work we can expect, I think, such mutations to become dominant and we will all need another vaccine in due course. This is one of the reasons why the world has got to reduce the number of people giving the virus chance to mutate.
Jonathan Van Tam - "Early evidence suggests the South African variant does not have “a distinct transmissibility advantage over our current virus”. Means there’s no reason to believe it will become dominant here."
But you are the expert. I think most people expect this to be an annual thing initially though. Science is still catching up with the virus.
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phil_parker

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #271 on: February 08, 2021, 06:37:26 pm »

The Flu virus mutates constantly, each annual Flu shot consists of a mixture of vaccines targeted at the 3, or 4 most common Flu variants.   

SARS variants such as Covid will not be eliminated this century, so we will have to learn to live with it. 

After all, Flu already kills up to 20,000 people in the UK every winter and no-one stays locked up at home because of that.
But we have grown up with these - just as we accept cars hurtling towards each other at a closing speed 120mph, separated by only a painted line.

With something new, the precautions will be far more extreme. There will always be another mutation (several thousand so far) and another expert happy to have their 15 minutes on TV claiming that we must never exit lockdown and anyone who says otherwise is a murderer. The Lancet considered the effects of vaccines and suggested this was the "new normal" back in October, and I still see no reason to disbelieve them.

As for how long people will "live" like this - I personally know one who decided they couldn't, and anecdotally, several others. They decided that they envied the dead and did something about it. It may well be that the government decides that they should facilitate this as we can't pay furlough money forever, and that means 6 million+ whose jobs simply no longer exist. It's unlikely society could stand that level of unemployment. There are 8 million single-person households in the UK. If you encourage those without children (including me) to "do their civic duty", then that would solve a lot of those problems.

(And before someone says the government would never say that - 100 years ago, the option for many young men was run at German machine guns, or be shot for cowardice by your own side)
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #272 on: February 08, 2021, 07:08:23 pm »

I find that Jonathan Van Tam gives a measured and convincing assessement of the situation, unlike the politicians and often hysterical press.

It makes sense to have the current vaccinations which are targeted on the current threat. If we can have a booster in the Autumn which is aimed at the most dangerous variants then that is all to the good.

It is a messy situation and there are no easy answers except to keep abreast of scientific developments and manage your personal risks accordingly. I can live with the risk of getting ill as long as it isn't lilkely to cause severe illness or death which is pretty much the situation we already live with in respect of flu.

Like many people I miss my foreign holidays but if that is off the agenda then freedom of movement within the UK is not so dreadful. That is the situation in Australia and New Zealand.

Mrs B and I have just had our Astra Zeneca jabs and are grateful for them and grateful as well to the vaccination task forces and volunteers that have made it possible. The volunteers in our local car park by the vaccination centre have been standing there in driving rain, freezing conditions and now snow showers for a week or more and I am profoundly grateful to each and every one of them.

Colin
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jaymac

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #273 on: February 08, 2021, 08:19:40 pm »

Booster  dose in the Autumn wishful thinking the backlog of people waiting for their 2nd  dose is already piling up. mine should have been  Jan 16th with the 12 week  delay it should now be around the 12 March.Not  a peep coming out about dates though
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Covid vaccination
« Reply #274 on: February 08, 2021, 08:28:45 pm »

I think you are being rather pessimistic Jaymac.

Still plenty of time for you to be given a March date. Plus it is possible that the 12 week delay may be extended in the light of recent evidence. The emphasis is still very much on initial vaccinations at the moment.

As long as supplies are available the vaccinations are holding up very well.

Colin
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