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[heritorasphodel]

This thread is going to be partially a build log but also a guide to modelling the 47ft Watson in all it's variety. This class is a popular among modellers mainly because fibreglass mouldings are available and partly because the 47 is a handsome boat and is a good introduction into building classic lifeboats.

A bit of background on the class. The 47ft Watson was the final evolution of the Watson sailing lifeboat from the 19th century. She incorporated features from all the large lifeboats in service, the 46ft 9in and 42ft Watsons and the 52ft Barnett. She was the most spacious Watson, with a bulkier hull and a larger forward shelter, and it was the first lifeboat to be built with an enclosed wheelhouse (other than a couple of odd ones). The first boat of the class, Dunnet Head (Civil Service No 31), was built in 1955 and was stationed at Thurso for about 11 months before she was destroyed by fire along with the boathouse. Other boats were just as unlucky. In 1969 T.G.B. from Longhope capsized with the loss of all hands; and in 1981 Solomon Browne from Penlee was wrecked. In 1983 Salcombe's The Baltic Exchange capsized but righted with no loss of life.

[heritorasphodel]

A 47 can be built at one of three periods per boat. The first, exemplified by this photo of Helen Wycherly, is as built. The first half of the class had Kent Clear windscreens as standard, the second had normal wipers. All had folding windows.

The second period is around 1970 when the lifeboat fleet began to be modernised. Patches of the superstructure went orange, and radar was fitted. This is Solomon Browne.

In the late 70s the R.N.L.I. converted all their boats to self-righting. in the case of the 47 most of the boats were fitted with an airbag on the rear cabin deigned to inflate if the boat heeled over beyond 100 or so degrees, while 6 boats were highly modified with what's been called the 'Solent Conversion' which meant fitting a larger superstructure to make the boats inherently self righting. While the airbag-fitted boats all look fairly similar, the Solent conversions were different on every boat. (I have photos of 3 or technically 4 of these conversions)
Frederick Edward Crick, of Lowestoft
Joseph Soar of St. Davids

[F4TCT]

Looking forward to it! 

Dan

[heritorasphodel]

My boat is Pentland (Civil Service No 31), the second boat of the class which replaced Dunnet Head at Thurso. One service of note did not have a happy ending, which was the night of the 17th March 1969 when she was tasked to rescue and then recover the capsized T.G.B.


Now to the model. It originally belonged to my dad, and I think that it's older than I am. he had abandoned it in his shed for years, and then I 'inherited' it when he needed room in his shed. Here's the state of it when I acquired it:

It wasn't in too bad a condition, most of the guts were there, but some bits were missing and others weren't built properly (Furball take note here  )

[heritorasphodel]

The hull is the one that's sold by Models By Design, which, even though it's inaccurate in places (Such as the tunnels) is the fastest way to get a seaworthy boat. The tunnels should look like this:
where the top edge of the tunnel is perpendicular to the deadwood when viewed from astern, but look like this
 

I don't think it's any fault of the manufacturer, I assume that it's fairly difficult to produce this bit right because I've not seen a fibreglass hull that's correct in this area yet. But after all, it's going to be below the waterline anyway and only someone like me will ever know it's wrong so it doesn't really matter.

Another problem is the deck is supplied as a separate moulding bonded to the hull, leaving a large flange around the hull that when removed separates the hull and deck again, but this can be easily corrected.

[furball]

Cheeky "xxxxx"! 

Lance (dad!)

[Norseman]

I'll sign up now to read 'Rivet Counting for Dummies'
and I've cracked the Dummy part already

Dave

[Neil]

Strangely enough, Andrew, the tunnels on the Models by Design hull look very similar to those of the boat going down the slip in one of your photos..so they not to far out...........all things look different taken from different angles.....and a man with the skills that you seem to posess, having on numerous occasions told me about my boats, can easily fix that simple discrepancy with a few brass pins and some filler.

And if it wasn't for us people bringing our innaccurate hulls to the public....there's be very few, if any models of old classic lifeboats built...........that's why, until I released the Watson 41' boat with all it's inaccuracies.....there was a choice of errrr.......yes, the Aerokits Solent.................and errr the Aerokit's Solent, and errr........... and even that had inaccuracies in the tunnel area, and no one has ever complained about that one..........as it brought classic lifeboats to the "mass" public as far as kit building was concerned.

It's alright for rivet counters to be so,( I don't mind rivet counters one bit..so long as their comments about my boats don't offend.......after all they are MY boats after all) and to condemn everything, thinking that they can do better, is also fair enough, but they still tend to use  available materials to "better" their own builds...........

One sees it in kit bashers all the time, and  I always say.............if you can do better, then show us.

Good luck with the build, with the "sub standard and inaccurate hull" , and I hope you can rectify it to your own satisfaction.....because if you end up being satisfied, then that's the main thing, and what does it matter what others think, if in the end, you are satisfied..........

But it's a real shame that within the first few posts of you starting your build blog, you are pointing out the inaccuracies and poor design of a named model boat  kit and hull supplier and the hull that was once supplied to someone who might have thought it the bee's knee's

Enjoy your build, for what it is and should be....... a joy to do for your own pleasure, and bringing some good info and knowledge to others less fortunate than you are, and the connections you have, namely your association with Chatham Lifeboat Collection.

neil.

[irishcarguy]

Hi Andrew, nice to see you start a build, I will be watching with great interest.I think Neils points are very valid, you or I or anybody I know do not build our boats to satisfy other people & I for one don't care what someone else thinks of my efforts. However I always like to get constructive SUGGESTIONS on how I might be able to improve things,I think that is the kind of help that goes the farthest & is the most accepted. Most of us get our back up when someone tries to make themselves Superior than the rest of us with know all comments & you should have done it this way or that way. Nobody wants to be made to look stupid on a public forum & what especially hurts are the put downs for no good reason & in many instances are not even valid or helpful. I have lived a long time & I have seen few things in that time that could not have been improved in one way or the other. All that said I will be watching to see what I hope will be an informative build & one I will learn some new ways & ideas from. Good luck with your build. Mick B.       

[heritorasphodel]

Third time lucky. First things first, I only criticised the mouldings for the sake of absolute accuracy. It is My Personal Opinion, which we are all entitled to, that by choosing to build a named boat we have a duty almost to make that model the best we can. I understand that most people don't want to spend ridiculous amounts of time on details that not only will the average member of the public not understand and might not even see, but that's no reason not to do it.

I'm all for giving and receiving constructive suggestions, but I've found (not only on the forum) that some modelmakers refuse to accept any criticism of their models, even if you have evidence that says they are wrong. Modeller's licence is all very well but if there's no reason for building something wrong then why do it. In fact, I forgot to say at the start of the thread that this model is completely open to criticism, if you think I've got something wrong LET ME KNOW, the least I can do is give the point thorough investigation. If I'm wrong, then I will correct it or give a reason why I'm not correcting it. If you're wrong, then I will try to provide evidence. After all, by putting this on a public forum we should be open to both positive and negative comments.

In direct response, Neil at no point did I say the hull was sub standard, only inaccurate. The tunnels are not that far out originally, so only someone like me would notice. And if someone says something is wrong on your boats, you can't assume they are a modelmaker and can do better. And Mick, at no point can I recall ever making a put down for no good reason, if I've said that something is wrong then I've had evidence that suggests it.
And finally, I have to build my model to other people's satisfaction because I will never be satisfied with it, I don't think a model can ever be finished as there will always be something to tamper with. I pride myself on knowing virtually every mistake on my model, and I have a reason for each, from lack of knowledge to practicality. But the important thing is that I know it is wrong. What this thread is, is what the actual boat looks like and my attempt at recreating it.

Andrew

[heritorasphodel]

Now back to the boats, and focussing on scuppers. There are varying types in the lifeboat fleet, from the single-flaps of the shallow water boats like Liverpools and self-righters to the two- and three-flap scuppers of the deep water boats. I believe that the 47s had three-flap scuppers, and this is what I've put on. The moulding must be given credit for the recesses into the rubbing strake where the scuppers go, that get shallower as you go aft.
Frederick Edward Crick

How the flaps were finished will vary from boat to boat, but at least on Solomon Browne, Pentland and Helen Wycherly all but the 4 scuppers furthest aft are painted blue, while on those left the flaps are left as bare bronze. I don't know about the others.
Pentland

My attempt (my modelling skills are better than my photography skills  ) There's a bit of glare on the forward two.

When the boats were made self righting, those with airbags had the scuppers into the aft cockpit removed and filled in, while those with the Solent conversion had all their scuppers removed.

[heritorasphodel]

These are the options:
Susan Ashley
or
St Cybi
Don't seem to be able to resize the photos properly. My I.T. skills match my photography skills  I've used the three-flap.

[HS93 (RIP)]

you may need a A Rivet Counter's Guide to taking and posting pictures

Peter

[Kim]

The hull is the one that's sold by Models By Design, which, even though it's inaccurate in places (Such as the tunnels) is the fastest way to get a seaworthy boat. The tunnels should look like this:
where the top edge of the tunnel is perpendicular to the deadwood when viewed from astern, but look like this
 

I don't think it's any fault of the manufacturer, I assume that it's fairly difficult to produce this bit right because I've not seen a fibreglass hull that's correct in this area yet. But after all, it's going to be below the waterline anyway and only someone like me will ever know it's wrong so it doesn't really matter.

I love rivet counters ... I really do... Why not send the hull back for a refund and do your own!
I went one step further, didn't complain to the manufacturer and started a business producing hulls ... and kits ... 
Still i have to put up with rivet counters !
Go work out the cost in research of all aspects not just a couple of photos from different angles!
Regards
Kim

[RAAArtyGunner]

  my attempt at recreating it.

Andrew

Andrew,

That last sentence says it all.

All the other comments are superfluous, as no two attempts will be the same, even if both are 'rivet counter's

[derekwarner]

So Kim says........ "I love rivet counters ... I really do..."    ...you are not alone there Kim......  as I do too

Certain rivet counters on Mayhem have provided examples of absolute detail in their marine modeling with such displays and is a joy to behold and a true credit to their skill, however these members are usually modest in their words

Then, we have others who could fall into the collective term as "revit counters"  with a unique spelling of the word.........only time will tell with this latest thread......Derek....

[heritorasphodel]

Why not send the hull back for a refund and do your own!

I'm sure I've already answered this... I inherited the boat... It would cause more damage than good trying to fix the problems and would not be practical.

Still i have to put up with rivet counters !

and that explains it all. Despite what people say they do seem to have a problem with people who call themselves rivet counters, because at the first mention of it arguments like this start.
I wonder if this thread is worth continuing. I wanted to lend my experience working with classic lifeboats but people don't seem to want to know.

[mikearace]

I wanted to lend my experience working with classic lifeboats but people don't seem to want to know.

I think everyone who has an interest in whatever subject always wants to know more and learn.  Thats how we all improve our knowledge so there is nothing wrong in that and keep posting away in that vein from my perspective.

However personally I dont think it wins friends when people criticise other people's builds which are usually the result of hard work and effort regardless of the level of the fnished article. 

some modelmakers refuse to accept any criticism of their models, even if you have evidence that says they are wrong.

Yes some peoples finished efforts  show fantastic detail, research and skill, whilst others (which I include my builds in this catgory) have much less skill, the research isnt half as good as others and the end results reflect this when compared to other people's.  But they are still usually proud of the results although also usually self critical without the need for others to criticise.

If one person wants to criticise another persons hard efforts then I think the criticisms are best kept to themselves.  There is a world of difference between offering helpful advice from a position of knowledge and criticising.  If anyone offered me helpful knowledge or detail about a model I want to build or am in the process of building I will say thanks very much.  If they come to me and criticise my model I will probably raise two signal flags to them alone the lines of.......

     

[irishcarguy]

Andrew I would suggest you continue with your build as if nothing has been said yet. Explain as you go what you are doing & why & if there are also other ways that would work put that down too. I will follow this thread not to count rivets but if possible to learn & to use that knowledge in my own builds. As has been said already there is a vast difference between being an out & out critic & offering constructive help to the builder in the hope they can benefit from it. I personally have learned 90% of what I now know about boat building & sailing on here & am very grateful for that & to those that helped me, Neil being one & Dave from ACTion being the other. There are many others that have also answered my silly questions. I knew little or nothing about the RNLI or its life boats until joining this site, now I am in the process of building two life boats, I consider that good for me & also the trades people that have supplied me with the bits & pieces I have needed along the way. Both are the modern type but I hope to build a classic model one day too. So go ahead & show us another side of gathering information & knowledge & then applying that to your build. I know that the model you are about to build was your dads & from his posts on here it is obvious that he will be able to help you along the way, it must be nice to have someone so close to share your hobby with. Mick B.

[RAAArtyGunner]

I'm sure I've already answered this... I inherited the boat... It would cause more damage than good trying to fix the problems and would not be practical.
 and that explains it all. Despite what people say they do seem to have a problem with people who call themselves rivet counters, because at the first mention of it arguments like this start.
I wonder if this thread is worth continuing. I wanted to lend my experience working with classic lifeboats but people don't seem to want to know.

Andrew,

Don't recall the comments coming to that conclusion, at least not I, but it is your call.
Don't know nought about lifeboats, these are what we call lifeboats. So there is a lot to learn.
Nor do we have the conditions that you do in the channel, so it is very interesting, soldier on.  

[RAAArtyGunner]

If one person wants to criticise another persons hard efforts then I think the criticisms are best kept to themselves.  There is a world of difference between offering helpful advice from a position of knowledge and criticising.  If anyone offered me helpful knowledge or detail about a model I want to build or am in the process of building I will say thanks very much.  If they come to me and criticise my model I will probably raise two signal flags to them alone the lines of.......

     

 

[Norseman]

Somewhere in here there's a lifeboat thread lads
let's be nice and let Andrew carry on 

Dave

[RAAArtyGunner]

Somewhere in here there's a lifeboat thread lads
let's be nice and let Andrew carry on 

Dave

Agreed, Am also waiting for the next instalment,

[irishcarguy]

Me too, Mick B.

[unbuiltnautilus]

I find that the builder is the biggest critic of their own work, lets leave any criticisms up to him. I could tear some, if not most of my own work to shreds, but where is the fun in that. Carry on, excellent detail and a true enthusiast at work