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[Circlip]

The days of 3D6s and XFY 34s, experimentation and failure are long gone, never to return, to be replaced by reliability and instant gratification. Accept and move on.


  Regards Ian.

[tigertiger]

... and instant gratification.

I guess that the people who go through the steep learning curves required for 3D printing and programming for microprocessors like arduino might disagree with the notion of instant gratification. Neither of which are plug and play, believe it or not.

[Circlip]

But you need specialist equipment/knowledge for those rather than a knife, saw, tube of glue and patience.


  Regards  Ian.

[Subculture]

Correct use of any tools requires specialist knowledge, which can be acquired either through experience or received wisdom.

The old school and the new school is accessible to all if they have sufficient motivation to want to to learn.

[Baldrick]

 
  A few years ago when i was doing an out of the normal pick up of one of the grandchildren from our local school (a co-educational secondary school and sixth form with academy status )  I took an interest in their craft workshop through the window.  To my surprise it was a fully equipped classroom with walls fully racked out with complements of chisels ,gauges  knives and power tools such a pillar drills a lathe and bench saw. I guess the equipment was for the 6th formers but I was honestly surprised . I had assumed that under the current H&S regimes nothing more dangerous than plastic tools would have been allowed.  In my tool kit I still have a junior hacksaw which my son made when he was at this school

[ChrisF]

This discussion is very interesting, along with its diversions but we all know which way the hobby is going.

The biggest obstacle as we have identified is the lack of suitable water. Even if there were folks willing to take up the challenge (but most of us quite rightly want a quiet life now and have other hobbies etc. as well) and approach the authorities it would be nigh on impossible to present a strong argument especially as the pond/lake would more than likely attract the undesirable element and cause problems.

Also many ponds would have to be provided across the country to have any effect. It just ain't going to happen.

I count myself lucky that I got into the hobby around 5 years ago at which arguably was a good time with modern radio equipment and brushless motors having become established with the prospect of a few years enjoying it whilst good suppliers are still around.

Chris

[captain_reg]

Some thoughts on this from a young ish (mid 30s) boater: whilst model boating does seem to be less popular, I think we have recently seen more interesting in practical engineering skills from younger people - being a 'maker' as they say seems to be cool again.

I was just about to type this exact thing, that being a 'maker' seems to be a very current trend judging by the popularity and surge of related youtube channels. How much of this audience interest crosses the barrier from consuming youtube content to actually taking up a hobby I'm more skeptical about. And then a lot seems to be skewed towards CNC, 3D printing & drones.Model railways also seem to be having a bit of a resurgence, with new models, manufacturers, rocketing prices and TV shows.It's just down to chance that I got into model boating really, I was just about the right age for it to stick with me when my grandad was giving it a go, having previously tried rc cars, control line flying etc. Took a break while being a teenager, student & through my early career. Firstly due to it not being 'cool and latterly due to not having the time. Got back into it since 2020 and not looked back. My only problem now is managing the number of boats 

Access to suitable water has been a pain, I've given up trying to go it alone on canals and just accepted that I need to drive a fair distance to the nearest club (Bury) however the welcome I've received has made it more than worthwhile.

[Colin Bishop]

The MPBA as the recognised official body for powered model boating used to be quite active in lobbying for use of water for model boating but today's scale model boaters are no longer interested in competitive boating and long ago decided that the MPBA was of no use to them personally, whilst ignoring the bigger picture, so the Association now has too few members to carry any weight.

I have not been an active member for many years but still keep up my membership in general support of the hobby and for the insurance it brings.

Colin

[Tug Fanatic]

Colin

I have often wondered about insurance. It is relevant if we are discussing bringing in new modellers. This is particularly true as the MPBA insurance only covers those under 18 if accompanied by a parent or other adult with written authority and excludes model to model damage for everybody.

I can see that high speed or steam craft could give rise to a claim but what do you enisage our electric displacement models doing that could cause a claim?

[Colin Bishop]

Yes, it's mainly aimed at high speed and steam but before 2.4Ghz TX aerials could be a hazard, hence a requirement for balls on the top by many event organisers. Another potential risk is people bending over scale models to admire the detail and getting impaled on a mast. In reality running scale models poses minimal risk but you never know what might appear out of left field in this litigious age. I think there was a case a while back when someone was field charging a LIPO and it cooked off causing some burns. LIPOs are found in quite a few scale models now.

As an aside, back in around 1975 or so the MPBA hosted the NAVIGA Scale Championships and one of the people judging a simulated naval shore assault had his jacket set on fire by a stray rocket. I saw it myself. Happy days!

Colin

[Geoff]

Candidly I really wouldn't be concerned about insurance unless you are into steam (danger very much over-rated) or very fast electrics which personally I think are extremely dangerous. If one hits a bank at high speed you have a projectile going towards people.


For most modellers the exposure is really minimal. Note the models themselves are not insured - insurance is only for third party claims/damage. I've never seen an accident in over 50 years of modelling that could result in an insurance claim.


The main concern is suitable water!


Okay now two "events" I have seen.....


- A very large and fat woman stumbled whilst pulling her dog out of the water and sat on a model pushing the superstructure into the keel!! Yes, really!!


- Six of us were bending over one of the Graupner ARTR models - Belfast which was balanced on a wall. No the model did not fall off the wall. This was daytime and there was a bang in the sky as a kid let off a rocket, so we continued our examination of the model when the rocket came down between out heads and hit Belfast smack amidships!! Almost impossible but it happened as mine was one of the heads!!


Cheers


Geoff

[dodgy geezer]

Colin

I have often wondered about insurance. It is relevant if we are discussing bringing in new modellers. This is particularly true as the MPBA insurance only covers those under 18 if accompanied by a parent or other adult with written authority and excludes model to model damage for everybody.

Um. Not exactly.


The original thread was entitled "Encouraging the next generation of boaters".  So we are talking about how to fertilise the ground so that more youngsters consider model boating as an attractive pastime.  However, I see a lot of comments here about the difficulties of existing established modellers.


These are simply not applicable to children wondering about a new bath toy. They ARE applicable to new members of a club - but I am thinking about the steps before that - building the idea that a model boat might be better than getting another football or the latest Playmobil set...

[dodgy geezer]

....

- Six of us were bending over one of the Graupner ARTR models - Belfast which was balanced on a wall. No the model did not fall off the wall. This was daytime and there was a bang in the sky as a kid let off a rocket, so we continued our examination of the model when the rocket came down between out heads and hit Belfast smack amidships!! Almost impossible but it happened as mine was one of the heads!!

I understand the BAe are looking for talented missile designers....

[Geoff]

I think there is a big question over visibility of the hoppy in the public eye and the lack of it is just not encouraging youngsters to get into the hobby.  How we get higher visibility is more challenging. The public shared discipline shows are probably the best way to promote the hobby but also general sailing at our respective lakes.


Maybe as a club(s) we could always try to have a model that we can let the youngsters use and try to sail round a course. It would probably have to be moderate speed to give them the interest but not fast enough to cause any damage - rubber bow?


That way they could perhaps get some practical experience at zero cost to themselves. I'm sure a number of us do this ad hoc anyway - I certainly have with a destroyer. Curiously after about 15 mins sailing he just went round and round in circles and got bored to a degree. Its just not particularly exciting going up and down a lake.


Maybe some little challenges for the boat to do would catch their interest, go through hoops and the like and as always we should be friendly and encourage anyone we can.


It is difficult where most children are not allowed to even hold a knife and are perhaps not generally encouraged to start making things.


Cheers


Geoff

[dodgy geezer]

I think there is a big question over visibility of the hoppy in the public eye and the lack of it is just not encouraging youngsters to get into the hobby.  How we get higher visibility is more challenging. The public shared discipline shows are probably the best way to promote the hobby but also general sailing at our respective lakes.

I think that the key to getting more youngsters to think about model boating as a pastime lies outside of our hobby - if someone wants to join a club they are already interested, and we need to ensure that the next generation have the opportunity to start gettying interested.


So yes, sailing on public lakes is about the only way to attract attention from the general public - but there are far fewer of those than there used to be....


I am reminded of a model flyer - George Bushell - who used to campaign for the retention of flying fields in the 1970s.  He pointed out to local councils that they had a statutory duty to provide for adequate recreation and sport in their area, that model flying was a sport, and that if they restricted access to it in one place they needed to provide suitable facilities in another, as required by central government directives.


I don't know if the same argument was used by model boating authorities at that time - I suspect not.  And nowadays clubs only consider the maintenance of their own facilities. So I suspect that there is no one to chase local councilors and the like, to argue for the provision of ponds suitable for model boating in recreation areas, not connected with any particulkar club......

[TomHugill]

Access to waters definitely tricky, my local water is the lido up at Bury, were model boaters have 7 day a week access as long as we respect the anglers. Unfortunately the anglers have become a lot more prevalent on the lake at all times of day and all days a week and with that have sadly come run ins where they believe they have run of the lake and feel it's acceptable to set up where you're running your models. I've been using the lake for 10 years and it's put me of, let alone some one starting out

[Subculture]

Always worth looking at local byelaws. Most councils seem to follow the standard guidelines, which really simply restricts the use of combustion powered craft. Steam and i.c. need designated areas, whereas electric and sail can be run on pretty much any body of water with public access.

Course I think some basic sense should prevail, probably ill advised to churn up the local duck pond with some 6S fast electric monster.

This is the guidance-

Model boats

37. No person shall operate a power-driven model boat on any waterway [except in a designated area for model boats].

“power-driven” means driven by the combustion of petrol vapour or other combustible substances

“waterway” means any river, lake, pool or other body of water and includes any fountain.

[dodgy geezer]

....

37. No person shall operate a power-driven model boat on any waterway [except in a designated area for model boats].
....

The point to make to the council would be that as model boating is a sport/recreation, they should be making provision for it, and if they have NO designated areas this effectively bans a sport which they are meant to be encouraging.


In my experience they will have two responses:


1 - model boats cause noise, safety issues and disruption, and we have nowhere suitable - to which a reply is that yachts and small electric boats do not, and it is their duty to find somewhere suitable....
2 - there is no demand - to which there is not much of a reply - beyond pointing out that without any facilities the sport cannot generate demand...


Which is why a concerted push by representatives of the sport would be so useful...

[Nordlys]

I'm not sure one can comfortably call it a sport, but most definitely a hobby. Even yacht racing would be hard pushed to call it a sport?

[Colin Bishop]

Which is why a concerted push by representatives of the sport would be so useful...

As mentioned previously, the MPBA are the recognised official body in the UK but scale model boaters have largely turned their back on it and are unable or unwilling to get involved in running the Association - so not much in the way of representatives unfortunately....

The MPBA used to be affiliated to the old Sports Council - now Sport England I think, but they are no longer listed. Model yachtsmen are arfilliated to Sport England via the Royal Yaching Association.

Colin

[dodgy geezer]

I'm not sure one can comfortably call it a sport, but most definitely a hobby. Even yacht racing would be hard pushed to call it a sport?

It's just that councils would address it as a 'sport/recreation', so those are the words you would use when talking about it to them.  I think that one issue is that we would get future generations of hobbyists from youngsters who see it as a 'recreation', while much of the formal representation for model boating sees it as a competitive sport.  The provision of services for these two aspects would be different, of course.....   

[Colin Bishop]

I think that by around 2000 the MPBA recognised that the competitive element had largely gone out of RC scale model boating and actively encouraged the establishment of recreational social boating events. Sadly their initiatives were not supported by clubs or individuals who preferred to focus on local activities and saw no need for a national association. As I think someone has remarked, many recognised model boating waters were effectively taken over by angling societies who stepped into the vacuum where no local boating club was present to stake their claim. A classic case of use it or lose it.

Colin

[Nordlys]

Would it be reasonable to say that the Future of Model boating lies in the hands of Grandads. They have disposable funds, Dad's and youngsters have very little.
This is now an expensive pastime, cars and planes even more so. Getting set up will cost serious money these days.

[Subculture]

Can be expensive or very cheap. R/C equipment, batteries and motors are fractions of the cost they used to be in real terms.

[Colin Bishop]

The money goes elswhere. The latest must have iPhones are over £800. Even mid range phones are £500 and then there is the cost of computer games and the equipment to play them.

Youngsters have different priorities these days.

Colin