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Author Topic: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?  (Read 821832 times)

Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #275 on: June 15, 2007, 03:28:57 PM »

Good points, Sam is building for the love of it and looks forward to when we can get her down to the lake in Yate. Things don't usually go wrong with an Amati kit, but the size of the slots is puzzeling. I wonder when the stuff will arrive in Germany.


Lots of thought on this one over the weekend, still like to keep our options open as long as we feel it won't be to awkward to fit the tubes in. I am keeping an eye on the preview site seeing what is not to far ahead.

Down Below-did you see the build reports on the loco Poly, looks like its still work in progress.

Daryl

 
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Martin [Admin]

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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #277 on: June 15, 2007, 04:04:41 PM »

Yes Daryl I did, no wonder hes a very busy guy, a pattern though of unfinished projects emerging ;)

Martin - the only info re 'builds with motors included' comes in the buildthebismarck.co.uk site, even then it is in relation to the 3 motor set-up offered from the german guy and has nothing to do with the Hachette offered set-up.

Great list by the way ;)
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #278 on: June 15, 2007, 09:18:35 PM »

Reading various posts on the couple of forums some people have mentioned that resin part D the bit with the centre prop on is a bit to small in heigth. I have seen two solutions, one from our German 'freind' which is to build up the base it sits on so that the keel is level with D. the other is a bit more drastic, cut it in half and insert a piece of wood to bring it level with the keel. some builders however have not mentioned this problem. Reading a german preview site I came across this for issue 41.

www.subifa.de/heftvorschau/die_bismarck_h41.htm

it appears that a plank is glued across the top leveling everything up or so it seems. I guess this may be one of the dangers of not carefully reading the instructions and finding problems where none exist.  I have no doupt there will be hitches along the way but care needs to be taken when reading of manufacturers problems which stem from the builders haste or inexperience.

Has anyone with a knowledge of german found anything on the german sites where they have found genuine problems, none should realy exist in a perfect world as Amati should have ironed the bugs out at the pre-production stage. But if this was a perfect world the Royal Navy would have its supercarriers by now ;D ;D ;D

Daryl
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #279 on: June 15, 2007, 09:22:05 PM »

Having followed all these posts with a dreadful fascination it seems to me that it would have been much easier to build the thing from scratch in the first place!
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #280 on: June 15, 2007, 09:25:25 PM »

You have a good point, it would be a lot cheeper and less grief, but it keeps my son quiet and myself with something to think about while the builders destroy our house, I mean install the central heating. I'll be glad when i get the roof back where my workshop is.

Just noticed the clock on buildthebismarck.com forum is six or so hours ahead, would this mean its not a uk based site?

Daryl
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #281 on: June 15, 2007, 10:05:51 PM »

Quote
Just noticed the clock on buildthebismarck.com forum is six or so hours ahead

Probably just a couple of issues...  ;D
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #282 on: June 16, 2007, 08:33:51 AM »

Looking on the German preview site issue 41 still no bow piece ??? ??? ??? Can't fathom out the reason why they havn't sent it so far.

I have noticed on buildthebismarck.com an intersting question, a chap has started planking the bow and is questioning the alarmng angle the bow planks take fron the bulkhead. He says the picture in the book is taken at a strange angle, better if they took it at side on. He must be doing issue 13, which we are waiting for(subscription). Looking at the german preview site I tend to agree. Has anyone else  spotted this, I don't think it will be a problem as Sam could allways put in a filler piece.

Odd the german hasn't surfaced there yet.

Daryl
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #283 on: June 16, 2007, 09:31:18 AM »

Hi Colin - Glad you are facinated ;)

We are presenting a view from the outside looking in so to speak and to present facts we have come across which lead to other angles, the actual on line build is being left with Martin which is within the 'Martin builds the Bismarck' topic where the build is being portrayed as per the mag build info and is top class quality stuff, unlike another site I can think of which deviates from the step by steps leading to confusion.
You are right about starting from scratch, though reading some of the posts god knows what those models would end up looking like ;D

Daryl - it seems the German guy maybe starting to duck out of replying queries, gone very quiet, maybe the bottom has fallen out of the 3 motor market ::)

I dont think there is a problem at 13 as nothing has been reported elsewhere nor on the .co.uk site, dont forget some problems are being raised that are self induced problems ie doing your own thing
I have completed up to 11 though have up to 16 in mags, a little behind on the build as am trying to complete another project for someone else at the same time.

Leaky - how are you getting on with your build?
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #284 on: June 16, 2007, 07:49:04 PM »

I have clamped a few planks in the position where they are going to be glued in part 13. Sam was a bit worried that I might be trying to depart from the instructions. The angle seems fine to me so I don't know what the guy is upto? When part 13 does arrive in a couple of weeks then we shall see if he has got a concern or just mucked it up.

The German guy is conspicuious by his absence, no posts from him for a while, he logged on yesterday for quite sometime but it apppears he was only looking. Umm time to check out? Odd he isn't on the other buildthebismarck site.

I have read some people are complaining that thier planks are different thicknesses and some are tapered. Our first bundle is ok, can't help thinking that they could be blaming the planks when its a case of over enthusiastic sanding of the frames. Sam decided not to sand the frames to remove the burning on the edges as he didn't want to alter the shape of them by mistake. I can see some people getting a bit carried away, hence some of the reported problems of dips in the hull and edges of planks showing. Sam uses Evostick weather proof and it as stuck them with no problem.

I have been keeping an eye on the German preview site, still no sign of the bow piece, can't fathom that one out I thought it would have arrived by now.

The webmaster of the .co.uk seems to have worked for BP on tankers, busy guy. strange he took on the build when he is half way around the world, The forum on the Titanic site was only set up at the begining of the year, why when its near the end of the build which he didn't finish.

Daryl
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #285 on: June 17, 2007, 10:32:10 AM »

Like I said, some are causing there own problems and then highlighting them as possible build problems ;)

Definately an air of the guy now being fed up with the queries, my view is that if you offer something like that then you should be prepared for the questions that follow, maybe he is about to depart the .co.uk site for pastures new as before, you simply canot offer an experienced set-up expecting the novice to read your mind >:(

The planks are likely to vary in thickness from time to time but it should not cause any major problems, then again like you say some are simply over zealous with the sanding ;)

I tend to use Aliphatic resin in the main for anything wood and on occasion thick cyano or epoxy depending on the application, the right glue for the right job across any build I do.

Maybe the Titanic is not finisished as he is obviously not at home, but then again why would anyone want to take on a project such as the Bismarck then having to cart it half way round the world and then get the mags sent on to wherever you are and at the same time run a web build forum ???

Looks like chat re the webmasters build on the .co.uk site have diminished and even the chat room has died a death, possibly because the build is way behind the current mag issue, I cant see anyone waiting for him to post his latest offering to pick up any tips so that they can progress there own build, people will just want to get on with it.
So one might ask if you cant provide the weekly offering for others to possibly gain from it then whats the point?
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #286 on: June 18, 2007, 09:29:09 AM »

Good question just popped up on the.co.uk site, someone is asking how many are building it as he can't find anyone else in is locality according to his newsagent he's the only one. There was an item on the BBC news web site a couple of weeks ago about these partwork companies sales figures, interesting reading. I have gone down the subscription route as my local newsagent says I am the only one of his customers who has asked about it. I do wonder however how many have bought into this and how many Hachette expect to stay the course.

Daryl
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #287 on: June 18, 2007, 11:07:42 AM »

I think most of the newsagent sales will come through WH Smiths as that is the obvious source.

One thing you can be sure of is that those buying into this series will be in there thousands rather than hundreds, simply because of the huge overheads of support that a partwork operation needs.

They will have a computer model that tells them what the likely fallout along the way is likely to be which I should imagine is quite accurate based on past sales experience, unless that is something dramatically goes wrong along the way that makes many simply dump the series.
The individual cost for an item is cleared quite early on in a series and there after its profit all the way, obviously depending on the length of a series the number of mags they need to turn it from covering cost to profit will vary as not each series or product costs the same, so as a result alll they need to ensure is that there are enough buying into a series that will cover the initial costs and off you go ;)
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #288 on: June 18, 2007, 11:23:09 AM »

A while back I read an annoucement which I thought was on here but I can't find it from a guy who proof read the magazine, I wish I could remember where exactly I read it. I have checked the two build sites and can't find it. It amy bring freash insight as to whats happening.

Daryl
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #289 on: June 18, 2007, 12:26:59 PM »

Intesting, hope you come across it again as it might do to explain a few things ;)
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #290 on: June 18, 2007, 12:38:13 PM »

for those like us who subscribe, it looks like issues 12-15 are being sent out, hopefully Martin's missing one's is included in his.

Daryl
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #291 on: June 18, 2007, 01:13:29 PM »


I'm going to plank my Bismarck with a thick layer of dust ...... ::)
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #292 on: June 18, 2007, 03:23:55 PM »

Quote
I'm going to plank my Bismarck with a thick layer of dust ......

Certainly sounds as if it is going to need dusting off periodically.  ;)
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #293 on: June 18, 2007, 04:08:39 PM »

 ;D ;D you got a big brush we can borrow Colin? ;D ;D

Me n Daryl are working on  few links we have come across that may lead us down a direct route into the designer of this kit, which as it happens may not be Amati other than them being the manufacturer if that makes any sense...watch this space ::)
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #294 on: June 19, 2007, 12:15:09 PM »

I see there is a well done for the hatchet job ;D ;D
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #295 on: June 19, 2007, 04:36:54 PM »

On the .co.uk site the Germans are saying that Hachette initially had 40,000 that started the series which has now settled to around 20,000, I expect another two or three thou will still drop out as it gets further down the line.

These are the sort of figures I talked of and would hazard a guess that around half of these numbers would be buying into it in the UK, hell of a nice nice profit there after charging 700 per customer that completes the series for an item that might have cost Hachette 100 per customer :-X

Daryl - Have a good read of Dirks posting on the .co.uk site in the 'Reaction from Amati' topic, a long detailed letter sent to Amati saying customers were getting more & more dissatisfied with the model and pointing out a comprehensive list of faults they found in Germany, the guy is writiing on behalf of the many German build forms and there is also a response from Amati :o

Its right to the point and looks like the Germans have caught Amati/Hachette with there pants down, Daryl do you recognise the name of Sergio ;)

Martin, how are we fixed for posting these letters on here?...are we going to upset anyone other than to highlight the problems they have found and what Amati say so far?

The BIG concern is that the problems identified are heading to the UK :o

I like the reply posting from Bob saying that 'Amati/Hachette should have mentioned the RC side of things earlier in the build so that the various mods for prop shafts etc could have been easily made'.
I think the last minute decision for an RC option for this model came with good intentions but it simply came far to late in the deisgn to late to make life easy for the installation of it.

This is one of the problems we have been highlighting all along, to repeat myself again in that it is quite apparent that this kit was never intend for RC as all the evidence firmly backs this up, I just hope Hachette/Amati manage to pull this project off otherwise the bad PR from it might sink them and the Bismarck.

No doubt the media are looking on with close interest due to the bad press this partwork had from the outset regarding its length of 140 weeks and total cost, things wont look too rosey for Hachette partworks if this project goes pearshaped, there will also be egg on face for Amati too :'(


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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #296 on: June 19, 2007, 09:27:31 PM »

I found the post on .co.uk very interesting. One of the points mentioned is the superstructure is covered with brass etch which some say are poor quality. Whatever the quality its the weight I am wondering about, all that weight on top, i have heard the turrets are resin more top weight. The people whoa re installing three motors to the germans plan might have a shock, at this rate the total weigh will be marginal. I wonder how much thought Amati has gone into the seakeeping abilities.

The letter speaks of innacuracies, like wrong number of portholes, incorrect number of vents below the water line. The thought that bothers me and I havn't had a look at the Anatomy of the Ship book is how accurate are the plans which I hope Amati used and I assume the writer is refering to. Are there more than one set of plans? I do agree for the money we should expect a very fine and detailed model. Amati's reply was interesting they conseed the point that the stern ancour recess is in the wrong place and is slightly the wrong shape. But I wonder how justified is the strong list of faults the german guy listed. Both parties do raise some valid points and from what i read the only difference in the uK is the translation of the instructions which we find perfectly readable unlike the author of the letter to Amati.

How many people is the German guy writing for I wonder has he maintains quite a few, but you can't please all of the people all of the time and no matter how good the resurch is you allways get someone who knows better that the third rivit from the left is a micron to small.

Down below- yep I recognise the name, might be Sergio Marleti the designer, same guy I think who did their Titanic.

From our point of view with the few issues we have ( upto 11) we find everything fits and the instructions are prefectly readable. The accuracy I can't realy comment on as we have only the frames and a few planks. From what I have read on the various forums most of the problems are induced by the builder not reading the instructions, this point has been mentioned by amati.


As its apparent that this model is an after thought for radio control we fully expect the odd problem, but Hachette/Amati don't help the situation by not communicating  fully to any enquiry and that inclueds e-mail. The e-mails I have had from them are hardly full of information, but the one posted on the .co.uk site is very informative and I hope Hachette takes note. Dealing with a call centre far away is not usually the easiest of tasks.

I will watch the developments of the posts with interest.

Daryl
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #298 on: June 20, 2007, 07:57:54 AM »

Martin - It looks very much like the Fleetscale Bismarck.

Daryl - From what I can gather the letter is representing all of the guys on the German forums who have found the exact same problems & errors with this model, so there does seem to be truth behind his findings.

I have just emailed Hachette UK to look into the letters & findings, already had a reponse saying they are to speak with Amati asap.
The way this project is heading it is likely to end up as a highlight on the BBC Watchdog programme or have involvement by Trading Standards.
If you read the below points it does appear that Hachete/Amati do have some serious questions to answer as there does seem some misrepresentation :o

The opening lines from Hachette on the issue 1 backing board and also the pull-out leaflet read as follows:

"This model distinguishes itself through its accuracy and attention to detail, the 1:200 scale allows you to reproduce the original Bismarck in its smallest detail"

Also says: "Created from the original plans"

So the question is how come we have inaccuracies?

Quality of parts is not an arguement unless the parts are unsuitable as nowhere does it say top notch components are supplied, Partworks are notorious for supplying poor value for money components :o

In my view build  problems as a result of poor kit design or poor build info are not acceptable especially with such a high volume/high profile series >:(

I suppose for Germany this is there most loved ship and as a result this kit will be gone over inch by inch by the purists, however the guy does have a number of points such as wrong number of portholes and the wrong location for the anchor seating.

Hachette need to nip this one in the bud and come clean very quickly as faith in there brand is rapidly being eroded >:(

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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #299 on: June 20, 2007, 09:43:00 AM »

Blomn & Voss I beleive has the originals in their archive, copies exist in several museums. I wonder if the palns are the originals or are copies. Another thought is I wonder how many departures from these palns occured to ge the ship launched.

I hope Hachette publishes on the various web sites their reply after consulting with Amati, Both parties stand to loose a considerable amount of money if this goes pearshaped, might even bring down one or both of them.

On the original post on buildthebismarck.co.uk forum the webmaster as you say askes for the photos mentioned in the e-mail to Amati. I do hope he posts them as I would be interested to see what they show.

The anchor position is clearly shown in a number of photos, one of which is in their mag, mistakes like this should have been spotted at the pre-production stage. Who checked the design? Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder ;D ;D ;D

Junior has decided he will continue with the build as he is enjoying it dispite the looming controversy, but I will keep an eye on the e-bay bismarck, I fancy a holiday in Scotland.

Daryl
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